In today's dispatches. we're still seeing the birtherstani try to find their fall-back positions. The de Vattelist "two citizen parents" claim is the top favourite, though some are also mixing in the Indonesian Citizenship myth for added spice.
Then you have the people that have been prepared since 2009 to call the long form a forgery and they will have their moment in the sun, darn it all!
The State of Hawaii Department of Health has posted the document chain as well has links to the long form on their site, which should show even the terminally stupid that they consider the document legitimate. We have some added studies of racism among the birtherstani, with Dr. Kate providing additional samples and examples on her blog.
James Manning tries to explain away the long form. Berg is trying to attract the faithful (and their money) back to him. Sen. Rand Paul makes fun of fellow tribble wearer Donald Trump. And The Pest and eFail has shown that no amount of evidence or reality will sway them from their 3-minute hate of Obama.
27 April - The State of Hawaii Department of Health issues their own statement about the long form.
PDF here
"The Hawai'i State Health Department recently complied with a request by President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “long form” birth certificate.
“We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawai'i,” Hawai'i Health Director Loretta Fuddy said. “I have seen the original records filed at the Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in Hawai'i.”
(Snip)
On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama‟s request, Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the copies.
So, unless the birthers want to claim that the State of Hawaii forged the document (which honestly, is likely), we have a further piece in the chain of evidence showing it's legit.
Oh, and the State of Hawaii Department of Health has added links to the long form at this state website here
27 April - Not surprisingly, racial prejudice does play a role with the birtherstani.
"So, to tease out the influence of racial prejudice on perceptions of Obama's Americanism, the researchers asked 295 students, both black and white, to evaluate the performance and "Americanism" of the two politicians in late 2009. They also included six questions, widely used in psychology, to gauge whether folks are more or less prejudiced against blacks. For example, participants were asked how strongly they agree or disagree with the statement, "I would rather not have other-race students live in the same apartment building I live in."
"Overall, as expected, White participants tended to view Obama as less American," says the study, as well as worse-performing. "Moreover, Whites higher in prejudice rated Obama as less American, and as performing more poorly as president."
What's interesting is the level of venom in the comments actually tends to prove the basic premise of the article. Funny thing that.....
27 April - A moving piece at Windy City Watch.
"Despite growing up apart from his mother, being raised by his grandparents, graduating from two Ivy League colleges, serving as the first African American President of the Harvard Law Review, being a community organizer, teaching at the University of Chicago Law School, serving in both the Illinois and United States Senate, being elected the first Black President of the United States and more importantly being a role model for American fathers, he still had to prove he was “good enough” to be considered a real American.
He was held to a different standard, he was “othered.” The legal document he previously provided, his Certificate of Live Birth, was “not good enough.”
While its easy to marginalize the birthers, led by Donald Trump, the media deserve a plethora of blame. The fact that they kept giving him a platform, analyzed the accusation and re-aired it, is despicable, just despicable. The media is complicit in this birther hysteria, there is no justification for the airtime Trump got for making outlandish statements about Obama’s birth certificate. Dan Rather got fired for mistakes he made reporting on George W. Bush’s military record, while NBC pimps Trump’s birtherism for ratings for “The Apprentice.”
Why one standard for Rather and one standard for Trump? My take away is that we are being told that Obama “is not good enough” to be afforded the same respect Bush was."
27 April - The Southern Poverty Law Center comments on the long form release.
"The release today of the certificate presumably will change some of these people’s minds, and make clear that many of the president’s critics are simply lying.
In a public statement this morning, Obama said he hopes the nation can now finally move beyond this issue. “Over the last two and a half years, I have watched with bemusement,” he said in brief remarks. “I’ve been puzzled by the degree to which this thing just kept on going.” Obama acknowledged there would be a “segment of the people for which, no matter what we put out, this issue will not be put to rest,” and ended with a blunt chastisement of those who continue to press the issue. “We do not have time for this kind of silliness,” he said."
No, we don't have time for this silliness. But we're still going to have to deal with it.
27 April - James Manning chimes in on the long form.
Wow, Manning is stuttering in this one. Rattled much? And he's trying to climb on the "we forced Obama to release it" bandwagon. As well has claiming "international pressure" also forced it's release.
He's hinting that it was created by the CIA and not legit. Much less the "why didn't he release it sooner" whine.
Manning's going to continue his role as "useful idiot" to the birthers it looks like.
27 April - Dr. Orly isn't popular among the members of her faith.
While I fear that those folks will be around to haunt us for years to come, I’m pretty sure that we are living in the final days of anybody giving a shit about Orly Taitz, and frankly, I’m really happy about that.
But the “birther queen” will be damned if she’s gonna go down without a fight after President Obama showed the universe that he was in fact born in America. Via Talking Points Memo:
But she still has her suspicions. Specifically, Taitz thinks that the birth certificate should peg Obama’s race as “Negro” and not “African.”“In those years … when they wrote race, they were writing ‘Negro’ not ‘African’,” Taitz says. “In those days nobody wrote African as a race, it just wasn’t one of the options. It sounds like it would be written today, in the age of political correctness, and not in 1961 when they wrote white or Asian or ‘Negro’.”
Orly might not stick around on the totem pole of high ranking American idiots for much longer, but she’s definitely earned her spot on the “Lamest Jews of the Decade” list.
28 April - Philip Berg is still trying to go after the free-range paypal donations looking for another conspiracy to parrot.
“The Birth Certificate issued by Obama on national Television, have missing factors: Mother’s address; length and weight of baby; and where the signature of Stanley Ann Dunham appears, it says “mother or informant”. Additionally, the authenticity of the document itself is already being questioned for many reasons”
Yes. Reasons like "I don't want to believe he was born in the United States" and "Wahh, this disproves my beliefs about Obama"
"Berg continued, “Even if Obama could produce a long form Birth Certificate, which is highly doubted,"
You DID notice that he did just that the day before you issued this press release, right??
"... it fails to answer the questions into Obama’s adoption in Indonesia.”
Did you ever find any official proof he WAS adopted there??
"Berg said, “I have received many calls claiming Obama could not have lost his U.S. citizenship by his mother’s acts of expatriation. In part this is true, however, he Nationality Act of 1940, revised 1952, Section 318(a) states, “A former citizen of the United States expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents and who has not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents may be naturalized upon filing a petition for naturalization before reaching age of Twenty-Five [25] years and upon compliance with all requirements of the naturalization laws with the following exceptions: (b) No former citizen of the United States, expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents shall be obliged to comply with the requirements of the immigration laws, if he has not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents, and if he has come or shall come to the United States before reaching the age of twenty-five years. (c) After his naturalization such person shall have the same citizenship status as if he had not been expatriated.”
1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, Section 349(a) (Bold face mine)
""From and after the effective date of this Act a person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by -- (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application, upon an application filed in his behalf by a parent, or duly authorized agent, or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of the naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, or as the result of naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fifth birthday: ...."
1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, Section 355:
"A person having United States nationality, who is under the age of twenty-one and whose residence is in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who hereafter loses United States nationality under section 350 or 352 of this title, shall also lose his United States nationality if such person has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, United States nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of United States nationality by the parent unless and until the person attains the age of twenty-five years without having established his residence in the United States."
Berg KNOWS all of this. It's his usual intellectual dishonesty that he keeps ignoring it.
"Berg continues, “Renewing an Indonesian Passport after the age of 18 is an affirmative act, as you are swearing allegiance to another Country. Soetoro/Obama renewed his Indonesian Passport when he traveled to Pakistan that is why he had to stop in Indonesia first."
And your proof of this is??
"When it comes to the citizenship of individuals in other countries, we are prevented from interfering, Hague Convention 1930. During the late 60′s all the way up until 2006 Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. "
Which also means that under the Hague Convention of 1930, Indonesia can't interfere with US law regrarding US citizenship either.
"My Birthday was April 13th and I am requesting everyone to please contribute $2.11, $20.11, $201.10, $2,011.00 or $20,110.00 so we can expose Soetoro/Obama in 2011 for the fraud he is !"
Yeah, that PayPal button won't click itself.
28 April - Thom Hartmann has Dr. Orly on, and she's having a bad media week.
28 April - *Chuckle*
It appears that by becoming the nation's birther-in-chief, Donald Trump may have opened himself to getting a taste of his own medicine. Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) said Thursday he had his own doubts about the New York developer's background.
Jeff Zeleny writes for the New York Times' The Caucus blog that Paul made a partly tongue-in-cheek request of Trump at a Thursday breakfast meeting of the Merrimack County Republican Committee.
"I've come to New Hampshire today because I'm very concerned," Mr. Paul said. "I want to see the original long-form certificate of Donald Trump's Republican registration."As a bit of laughter erupted in the room, he added: "Seriously, don't you think we need to see that?"
Paul was springboarding off the information that Trump has long contributed to Democratic politicians including, as Zeleny reports that Rand pointed out, Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV), the Senate majority leader who is fairly much detested by the GOP rank and file.
28 April - The Southern Poverty Law Center suggests it's time to start calling many birthers for what they really are.
"The people who have been selling claims that President Obama is not American — the Donald Trumps, the Orly Taitzes, the miserable state legislators hawking their snake-oil laws insisting that presidential candidates prove their citizenship — are mostly a pack of racists. In the cases where they are not, they are shameless opportunists perfectly willing to exploit racism for their own personal benefit, proponents of a second Republican “Southern strategy.”
And let’s not give a pass to the 25% of Americans who a Harris poll found last month believe Obama was not born in this country despite endless knockdowns by serious news organizations. Common sense — along with an important new study revealing the high levels of racism among those who make such claims — make it obvious what’s going on here. These people are either plainly stupid, or, far more often, whites who see Obama as the Other, the dark-skinned person who represents a racially changing society that they loathe and fear and resent."
28 April - The libertarian Cato Institute comments on Trump, Corsi and Farah.
"Undaunted by the latest development, Corsi’s publisher Joseph Farah told the Washington Post this week that he “fully expected this to happen” and takes credit for Obama releasing his birth certificate, exclaiming, “I’m delighted! I’m triumphant!”
Farah is now moving the goal posts, telling the Post that even if Obama was actually born in the United States, the fact that his father was a citizen of Kenya continues to cast doubt on his eligibility to be president. “If your father is Kenyan, how are you an American citizen?” he is asking.
Actually, the U.S. Constitution and 150 years of interpretation by the Supreme Court have left no doubt that the child of an American-born citizen, such as the president’s mother, and a legal foreign-born resident, such as Obama’s father, is a U.S. citizen by birthright. The only real question today is whether the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants are U.S. citizens, but I haven’t heard anybody allege (yet, anyway) that Obama’s father was in the country illegally when his son was born.
As President Obama said himself yesterday, it is time to put this silliness behind us and move on to the weighty issues we need to address."
28 April - What a surprise. I guess Dr. Kate's toothpaste rinse cup told her that the long form is an "obvious fake"
"Within one hour of the White House release of the long-form birth certificate certification of live birth, it was proven to be fraudulent and another “assembled” document, that is, a fake."
By people who had been planning since 2009 to dismiss any long form released as a fake.
"The same obvious problems that plagued the first forged documents plagued this one"
The problems being "birthers inability to accept reality"
"Why release such an obvious faked document?"
Because it was sent to him by the State of Hawaii along with a clear evidence chain to show it was copied there from the original record??
"Making this document actually available for forensic examination will most certainly confirm its fraudulent nature. The forgers, the enablers, and Obama could be easily taken into custody through Congressional order…hmm…what Congressional order? How deep is this to prevent the FBI from moving in on Obama right now?"
I think the FBI is more worried about seditionists calling for the overthrow of the legitimate US government. You know, people like Dr. Kate and the like....
"Dual citizen at birth does NOT a natural born citizen make."
Not according to US law.
"While I understand the need to have the Supreme Court clarify the meaning of natural born citizen, I do not believe this Supreme Court under Obama deserves nor should have the opportunity to rule on the subject at this time. "
Translation - she's afraid they would give a ruling based in the law and the Constitution, rather than one she wants to hear.
"We must continue to force the release of all documents…which by now are being destroyed or forged. "
Well, if you have ALREADY decided that all documents are being destroyed or forged, then there's no reason for you to see them, is there? After all, you've already made up your mind about them without even seeing them.
"Already there are statements from the media–and Neil Abercrombie forecasted them–that going after Obama’s father was a racial issue and that is the only reason the ‘birthers’, aka Constitutionalists are not satisfied."
Maybe because it's a racial issue and that you're going after Obama's father??
"There are other ways in which the race card is played…for example, when the proper word for people of BHO Sr’s race was ‘negro/negroid’, the document makers put in the politically correct term of ‘African’."
Because he was from Africa and would have identified himself as African??
"The other possibility here is a combination of Alinksy tactics, which do employ the race card…to “rub raw the emotions of division”; to insult and demean; and to flaunt his illegality daring anyone to stop him."
And where does Dr. Kate link to in a paragraph to state the birthers aren't racist?? Why the racist Lame Cherry of course!!
"An interesting statement by Donald Trump was that his investigators found that the ‘birth certificate is missing’."
Funny, the State of Hawaii was able to find it.
Hey, and look at the poodle-brained one, Therese Daniels!
"usapatriots-shout
April 28, 2011 at 3:20 pm
Liars, Liars. Pants on Fire. Noses as Long as a Telephone Wire!"
Wow. Someone didn't mature much emotionally after 1st grade, did they?
"Another Obama “shuckin & jiven”? "
Racist much??
"They are falsely claiming that .50 cent piece of forgery is Obama’s long form birth certificate and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt Obama was born in Hawaii and therefore eligible to be president."
Yeah, well, when the State of Hawaii confirms it's legit, most people who aren't mixing red wine with their poodle's painkillers tend to accept it as fact.
"THIS IS THE BOTTOM LINE. BARRY SOTOERO AKA BHO IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE HOW CELEBRITIES, MSM, BLOG BOTS, JUDGES, DA’S, THE DOJ, OR FORGED DOCUMENTS CLAIM HE IS. HE IS NOT. HE IS A USURPER AND MUST BE REMOVED.
Truth at last! Truth at last! Truth at last!"
Translation - "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts"
"jane
April 28, 2011 at 3:37 pm
It is shameful that we, the citizens of this late great country, cannot uprise against our government, in a nice way however….to MAKE or FORCE that CONGRESS or the FBI remove this criminal."
Yeah. what a shame you can't commit treason and sedition just willy nilly like that.
"How can we do this? IGNORE ALL LAWS made under O and refuse to accept him as our leader. Give our reasons on every tax form, document, etc., and say it clearly. LOUD and CLEARLY"
Oh, and the IRS will be more than happy to explain the error of your ways to you.
"no-nonsense-nancy
April 28, 2011 at 5:04 pm
Jane, you are absolutely right. We need to take it in our hands. We can’t depend on any of those people, congress, courts, military, etc. If Cmdr. Fitzpatrics’s approach to the Fed. Grand Juries doesn’t give results then we will have to do it ourselves. I have said many times here that a big showing in DC is what it will take. We can’t allow any primaries to take place with BO in them.
STOP THEM COLD!!
ARREST THE CRIMINALS!!"
So in other words, to hell with voters rights, rule of law, the Constitution, and the will of the people, you just want the scary black man off the ballot, right?
"Troy
April 28, 2011 at 10:39 pm
He hates every ounce of white blood in his body, which means that he hates himself and he’s pissed about it!
He is a self loathing maniac with an anger issue and he managed to find a “whitey” hater, just like him, to marry.
He hates himself, he hates white people, he hates Christians, he hates Americans and he hates the world….What is worst of all is that, He hates God for trapping him inside of a half white body.
He feels like God crapped on him and he is looking to exact some revenge.
He is like a snake that is just emerging from a long winter hibernation, in that he strikes at anything and everything that moves.
He is going to destroy this country and destroy all of our peaceful lives unless we stop him!"
Someone has some major race issues here....
"Quantum Leap
April 29, 2011 at 2:02 am
This fraudulent BC was likely a ‘group’ effort and made by Sasquatch and the kids instead of coloring Easter eggs…
Yep, Sasquatch went on fastsOprah with him. She was so proud of her “masterpiece” otherwise known as a NEW PHONEY BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND SHE COVERED HER ARSE BY typing in the words at the bottom that indicates it’s sort of maybe a copy of the “real” one, but not really a real COLB.
The real doctor was I. Hosedoverthemfornow.
These two are the white collar version of Bonnie and Clyde."
"Quantum Leap
April 29, 2011 at 11:24 am
They didn’t get an invite because they don’t want ghetto trailor trash at their wedding."
Racist much?
Here's a hint Dr. Kate. When you let open racists like this post on your blog, don't be surprised when you're called racist as well.
28 April - At the Daily Paul, an article from conspiracy nut Wayne Madsen
"Within 24-hours of the release of the long form Certificate of Live Birth on April 27, intelligence agencies from Britain and China to Germany and Russia examined the document and concluded it was a forgery based on the fact that Barack H. Obama Sr.'s race, listed as "African," was a monumental error, considering that not only the United States, but other English-speaking nations described Africans and those of African descent as either "Negroes" or "blacks" in 1961."
Because intelligence agencies from around the world can't wait to blab their findings into the ears of conspiracy writers.
As for "negro", the term "Black" or "African" would have been the most commonly used in the UK and other commonwealth nations during that time period. (Indeed, the usage of the word "Black" in the UK dates back to the 19th century, with "bootblack" being a derogatory word. The idea that the use of the term "African" wouldn't have been used is not only US-centric but MAINLAND US-centric.
Madsen is babbling.
28 April - The Honolulu Star Advertiser posts the chain of evidence for the long form in this article at their website
"...so-called birther conspiracy theorists yesterday had already begun shifting their sights, raising questions about the president's Social Security number. And Donald Trump, who is considering seeking the Republican nomination to run against Obama in 2012, continued to question Obama's academic credentials.
"We're realistic that nothing we do as a state will change their minds and that's really unfortunate," said Donalyn Dela Cruz, spokeswoman for Gov. Neil Abercrombie. "We're hopeful the staff that has carried the additional work load can now put all their efforts where they belong, and that's serving the people of Hawaii."
Persistent questions about the president's official birth certificate — and demands for the original "long form" document kept in state archives — had been taxing state officials going back to the administration of Gov. Linda Lingle, a Republican who twice tried to put the issue to rest herself."
28 April - Poodle pelt junkie Donald Trump posts a video of his patting himself on the back about the long form.
That sound you hear may just be that of the birthers being thrown under the TrumpBus.
28 April - The Southern Poverty Law Center comments on the birtherstani attempts to go to plan B now that the long form has been released.
"The clamor surrounding Obama’s citizenship status has only intensified in the aftermath of the White House releasing, for the second time, documented proof he was born in Hawaii. For the most part, birthers refused to accept Obama’s “long-form” birth certificate at face value. Some even insisted the document they had sought for years — and claimed didn’t exist — offered more proof that Obama is not constitutionally eligible to be president."
Well, yeah, the de Vattelist crowd went nuts, and since that seems to be the majority of birthers anymore....
And hey look! Open racists claiming "forgery!"
"The Council of Conservative Citizens, a white nationalist group that argues black people are “a retrograde species of humanity,” accused the White House of doctoring Obama’s birth certificate, claiming to have uncovered computer coding that suggests it had been digitally altered."
I will note that it was at a Council of Conservative Citizens convention that Tim Adams gave his first radio interview and made his initial claims.
"During yesterday’s White House briefing, Obama said the time has come for the nation to move on and address the real challenges facing the nation.
“We’re not going to be able to do it if we are distracted,” Obama said. “We’re not going to be able to do it if we spend time vilifying each other. We’re not going to be able to do it if we just make stuff up and pretend that facts are not facts.”
Maybe, just maybe, the Trumps, the Taitzs, the Farahs and the Corsis of the world aren’t really interested in that at all."
No, they're only interested in throwing as much mud at Obama as they can in hopes it sticks.
28 April - So, the day that Obama released his long form, JB Williams used the Pest and eFail to state that Obama hadn't shown a long form.
Oops.
And now that he's been shown wrong? It's de Vattel baby, all the way!
"Obama finally releases his so-called “long form” birth certificate (aka, a birth certificate), confirming once and for all that he is not a natural born citizen of the United States in compliance with Article II of the U.S. Constitution.
Let the impeachment begin!"
Except that the long form shows the exact opposite - that he IS a native born US citizen by birth.
"Obama lied – having claimed for two years to have already released his birth certificate, which birthers correctly identified as only a COLB (Certification of Live Birth)."
From the State of Hawaii(PDF)
"In June 2008, President Obama released his Certification of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “short form” birth certificate. Both documents are legally sufficient evidence of birth in the State of Hawai'i, and both provide the same fundamental information: President Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawai'i at 7:24 p.m. on August 4, 1961, to mother Stanley Ann Dunham and father Barack Hussein Obama."
So the State of Hawaii seems to disagree with you. And I suspect they know something about their own documents, eh?
"Now he has released his birth certificate, allegedly."
Cute.
"...people don’t know what natural born citizen means."
Yes. Those people are called "birthers"
"The official definition of natural born citizen is as follows –
1. natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.
2. those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.
3. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens
4. in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country."
Actually that's not an official definition, but rather a quote from an English translation of "Law of Nations" that came out after the Constitution was ratified. If you want the "Official" definition of who is and isn't a citizen, you need to look at US Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, § 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth.
"For those still having trouble following along, a natural born citizen is one born the natural offspring of a father who was at the time of birth, a U.S. citizen."
Are you borrowing Padawan Pauly's act?
"Not only can he be impeached, he must be. He must be impeached, removed from office and maybe put in prison for life for his intentional outright fraud."
"Wahhh! The scary black man is STILL THERE!!"
1.I call for the immediate impeachment of Barack Hussein Obama for the high crime of fraud and breach of the public trust.
2. I call upon House Representative Allen West to initiate impeachment proceedings against Barack Hussein Obama at once.
Boy, they do have a love affair with Allen West.
"I call upon all American citizens to boycott all of the media outlets and personalities that carried water for the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the American public."
A boycott of World Nut Daily, Newsmax, the Pest and eFail and other birther blogs, Michael Savage, Donald Trump, and the rest?? SWEET!!!
28 April - And World Nut Daily is flailing around looking for something to stick. This time they're playing flirty games with the Indonesian citizenship myth, based on a discussion that Maya Soetoro-Ng was having with a birther.
"Soetoro-Ng was objecting to having a conversation with a critic of her half-brother, and said she had been misquoted as saying her whole family was Muslim.
She wrote, "I did not say my brother was a Muslim. I did say that I was more philosophically Buddhist. I told you that you were upsetting me. You said that you were not trying to upset me but wanted to know the truth about (Raila) Odinga (a Muslim for whom Barack Obama campaigned in the 2007 presidential race in Kenya). I told you I didn't know who that was and had never met him. You mentioned the adoption laws of Indonesia that you saw as related to my brother's legitimacy (you were suggesting that because my father, his stepfather, had adopted him, that my brother was no longer American) and I said that I had no idea about Indonesian adoption law."
Well, since a minor US citizen cannot renounce US citizenship, and since he was over the age that Indonesian citizenship could have been granted, the question is quite academic anyway.
"The adoption, if it happened, could affect the birth certificate in that in the United States, when an adoption takes place, a birth certificate that would have been generated at birth is replaced by a birth certificate created at an adoption that references the adoptive parents as the actual birth parents. The location of birth is not changed, nor the weight of the baby, or other details. But the mother and father can be changed on an original long-form birth certificate during the adoption process."
First off, the statement is "can be".
Second off, even if it had taken place, it wouldn't have affected his US citizenship.
Third off, there's never been any proof that said adoption took place.
"During the 1960s Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship, so if the school record is correct, and Obama attended classes as an Indonesian citizen, the apparent requirement would have been for him to give up an American citizenship."
Which would have been impossible UNDER US LAW for him to have done.
"On his later return to the U.S., in regaining citizenship, he likely would have had to have been listed as a "naturalized" citizen, not a "natural-born Citizen," as demanded by the U.S. Constitution for the office of president."
Except that since he couldn't renounce US citizenship as a minor, he would have retained his Natural-Born US citizenship.
"WND has reported that in a passport amendment submitted Aug. 13, 1968, Obama's mother identified her son with an Indonesian surname as Barack Obama II Soebarkah, and asked the State Department to drop him from her U.S. passport.
The transaction could have been part of an effort by Dunham to obtain Indonesian citizenship for her son."
Or, alternately, could have been part of an effort to get him his own passport to make it easier for him to travel back to the US by himself.
"If Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama at age five or younger, then Obama would automatically have become an Indonesian citizen according to the country's laws in the 1960s, which stipulated any child aged five or younger adopted by an Indonesian father is immediately granted Indonesian citizenship upon completion of the adoption process."
IF the previous citizenship was renounced, which under US law it could not.
"Lolo Soetoro could have adopted Obama in Hawaii, although such an adoption would not have necessarily been recognized by Indonesia. Likewise, what happened in Indonesia may or may not have affected the status of Obama-Soetoro in the U.S."
Funny how they bury this all the way at the bottom, when it's the most accurate statement of the lot.
Simply put, under US law, a minor cannot renounce US citizenship, nor can the parents. If an adoption took place, it STILL wouldn't have changed Obama's status as a natural born US citizen.
28 April - Donald Trump may have fired himself from TV, as Celebrity Apprentice may have become too toxic for people to appear on.
"Now that the White House has thrown water on Trump's favorite issue by releasing a long-form birth certificate, Donald has now moved on to questioning whether Obama's grades were good enough for him to get into Columbia University or Harvard Law School.
Respected CBS News man Bob Schieffer deemed this line of attack as "just code for saying he got into law school because he's black ... This is an ugly strain of racism that's running through this whole thing."
Once you've got the "racist" label on you, it's hard to come back.
"Every year it's been harder to find A-list stars to be part of the show. Let's face it, this season the cast includes a Real Housewife and one of Michael Jackson's sisters, when bigger stars passed," an 'Apprentice' insider tells me. "Next season his only options will be Christine O'Donnell, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter."
29 April - And it looks like Joseph Farah and his pornstar mustache are going de Vattelist after all, along with the Indonesian Citizenship myth.
"For me, the release was not unexpected. For about two or three weeks, Jerome Corsi, author of the upcoming and already best-selling book, "Where's the Birth Certificate?," and I have been discussing our mutual expectation that Obama was going to be forced to act."
Said book has already dropped to 47 at Amazon.
"One of the reasons I was so eager to see the long-form document is because I was relatively certain it would provide different information than we saw in the short form certification of live birth released in 2008. I was relatively certain Obama was hiding something, for instance, the real birth father. Because if Barack Hussein Obama Sr. was, in fact, his dad, then there is no way he is eligible to be president. He was a visiting student from Kenya, a subject of the United Kingdom. He conferred U.K. and Kenyan citizenship on his son at birth."
Except that dual citizenship at birth doesn't change one's status as a natural born US citizen.
"The men who wrote the Constitution and used the phrase "natural born citizen" as a requirement of office intended that future U.S. presidents would not have "divided loyalties" or even the appearance of "divided loyalties." In other words, the type of president they were trying to avoid with this language was the very type represented by Barack Obama."
And yet it's funny that there's nothing IN the Constitution that says anything about people with multiple citizenships being excluded or not being considered "natural born".
"His sister, Maya, recently confirmed that her brother was adopted at the age of 5 by his Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, who moved Obama there where he lived and attended school for several years."
First off, she did no such thing.
Second off, if he WAS adopted at age five, then under Indonesian law he was too old to be granted Indonesian citizen even if he could have renounced his US citizenship, which, under US law, he could not.
"Though we do not have any citizenship records for Obama during this period, it is hard to understand how he could have been adopted by his Indonesian stepfather and moved to that country for years without a change in citizenship."
It's not hard at all to understand. Simply look at the, Nationality Act of 1940, Section 401, and Section 407, has well as the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, Section 349(a) and Section 355. Then look at Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia. When you're done with that, you understand quite well why it would have not been possible for Obama to be granted Indonesian citizenship.
As I have said before:
"Under US law as shown in Sections 317(b), 401, and 407 of the Nationality Act of 1940, and Sections 349 (a) and 355 of the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, neither Stanley Ann Dunham or Barack Obama would have lost US citizenship upon marriage to Lolo Soetoro. Neither could Barack Obama have lost US citizenship due to actions taken by his mother.Under Indonesian Law 62/1958, Article 2, there was no way to grant Indonesian citizenship to Barack Obama due to being over the age limit as defined by Indonesian law. In addition, the inability to renounce Barack Obama's US citizenship would have rendered him unable to be granted Indonesian citizenship until the age of 21, and he would have had to returned to Indonesia to live AFTER his mother divorced Lolo Soetoro to meet the guidelines in Article 5 of that law.
In short, there is no possible way under either United States OR Indonesian law that Barack Obama could have lost his US citizenship and been granted Indonesian citizenship as a child."
So it looks like Farah (and World Nut Daily) are starting to go with a combo of de Vattelism and the Indonesian Citizenship myth. This should make Berg happy, but it still doesn't change the fact that neither position is backed up by US law or the US Constitution.
29 April - Forbes talks about birtherism and the racism that's part of that mindset.
"Why Didn’t Obama Release This Long Form Birth Certificate Before?
Here’s the very best reason – feed people with settled views additional information and they will simply weave it into their existing construction of reality and demand further proof to support their beliefs in the guise of asking the rest of us to prove they’re wrong.
That’s precisely what happened yesterday in the “birther” camp."
The writer then follows with 17 different memes the birtherstani are floating around trying to get traction on.
"Given the strength and duration of the birther conspiracy theory, it’s not surprising that the study found that White participants tended to view Obama as both less “American” and less competent than Blacks. Whites who rated Obama as less American and less able also scored higher in prejudice that those who didn’t.
Our tendency to deny that we have prejudices (self-deception) makes it all the more difficult to overcome the other cognitive biases that prevent us from understanding the world around us and the motivations that cause our fellows to do what they do.
I agree with birthers who now say it doesn’t matter where Obama was born -what matters is who he is and what he believes. We don’t have to do a lot of sleuthing into Obama’s records to get the answers to these questions. Anyone who is actually interested in those answers can read his memoir Dreams of My Father."
Indeed. But the birthers have never been interested in answers. Only myths and conspiracy and hatred.
29 April - In the tradition of the Pest and eFail's whiny letters, Jeff Lichter takes time from writing love letters to Donald Trump to complain that Jan Brewer didn't do what he wanted.
"Second, your recent veto of HB2177, which would have gone a long way to preventing what you allowed to occur in 2008 from ever happening again, is a second failure to defend what is said in our US Constitution, being that “No person other than a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, or a citizen at the time of the adoption of the United States Constitution, shall be eligible for the office of President. You have told the State of Arizona why you vetoed this bill but your explanation contained some misrepresentations, misinterpretations, and perhaps a lack of understanding the real purpose of the bill as well as the constitutional basis of the bill."
Oh, she understood the basis of the bill. It was to ignore the Constitution (including that pesky "Full Faith and Credit" clause so that your fellow birtherstani could try and keep Obama off the ballot.
29 April - From the New Hampshire Union Leader.
"The birth certificate issue does more political damage to Obama's critics than to the President himself, because it enables the media to paint those critics as kooks. Nor are Donald Trump's political positions such as to create a stampede to his cause."
Patrick-
I have been posting this several places, because it is such a simple explanation of the birther's latest BS.
I have spent the last 15 minutes opening various PDF files in Adobe Illustrator (Mac)- including ones I scanned myself, as well as various types off the internet.
IN EVERY SINGLE CASE multiple “layers” aka "groups" show up in Illustrator. The program itself creates them.
Anybody with Illustrator can try and confirm this.
In other words, there are NO layers in the President’s BC PDF. They are created by Illustrator.
Any PDF that opens in Illustrator will have one layer, which can be clicked for a dropdown of additional “layers” or "groups" created by Illustrator.
And no need for special “Polarik” type files, software, or techniques to confirm this. No great expertise needed. No need to scan files yourself, or if you do, worry about scan or OCR settings.
ANYBODY with Illustrator and a handful of PDF files can confirm this.
As Sef said:
"So, whoever started this nonsense is saying: “I opened the file in a program that is designed to create layers and lo and behold it shows layers.” DUH!!!"
Posted by: obsolete | April 29, 2011 at 03:00 PM
Obsolete - Yeah, I've been doing likewise on my Macs, using images scanned on a colour copier and on our office printer. All of them are coming up like that. OCR artifact???
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | April 29, 2011 at 03:06 PM
I don't understand the forgery claims as the state of Hawaii certified the BC. If you don't believe the state of Hawaii then call the FBI, call the Canadian Mounties, call Major Dudly do Right, call the plumper, Call Elvis, do something. Elvis has the real Keyan BC so finding Elvis will mark the end of the usurper.
Posted by: richCares | April 29, 2011 at 03:48 PM
All this crap about a graphic file. I could give two farts in a mud puddle. The 'cradle to grave' chain of custody certified by the folks who do this for a living is real hard to beat.
Posted by: SueDB | April 29, 2011 at 05:22 PM
There have been birthers posting at usconstitution.net's forum with their Vattel bs and getting some major smackdowns. Of course their response to people who actually know the constitution and meaning of natural born is to say they don't know what they're talking about.
It must be a terrible life living as a birther.
Posted by: DaveH | April 29, 2011 at 05:54 PM
DaveH: Which thread on there was this debate ? I was just looking for it but couldn't find...
ty
Posted by: J P rigg | April 29, 2011 at 07:25 PM
Obsolete and Patrick,
PDF's can be made with layers in Photoshop, Word, Illustrator, I'm pretty sure Indesign and likely Acrobat. You can pull a layered PDF into Indesign and "flatten" it, making the entire image one layer, which, of course, any self-respecting Obama birth certificate forger would know and do, and yet, this one looks as though some state official sitting at a computer copied this without worrying about layers, just like you, me or any other honest person would do. In fact, that's one of the best indications of its authenticity.
Posted by: Greg Brown | April 29, 2011 at 07:34 PM
http://www.change.org/petitions/dont-support-donald-trump-and-boycott-the-sponsors-of-nbcs-the-celebrity-apprentice-3
First boycott I've ever signed ... Sign and spread it around ...:)
Posted by: J P rigg | April 29, 2011 at 07:57 PM
@J P rigg - This is the best thread and one probably referred to in comments at the P & E from one of their readers.
http://www.usconstitution.net/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=debate;action=display;num=1302907218
Birthers pop up over at usconstitution.net randomly and you can tell the members are irked by them. The tread I included is the most amusing because the person that started it claims that they changed the definition of natural born citizen on their website and it had once read that NBC = born to two citizen parents.
It has been a hoot reading over there.
Thanks for the link to the petition. Signed. Didn't make much difference since I never watched any of the apprentice shows but at least NBC knows.
Posted by: DaveH | April 30, 2011 at 05:05 AM
Greg Brown,
I understand what you are saying but I don't believe that the PDF of Obama's BC had any layers. It was created "properly".
Illustrator creates "layers" and "groups" on ANY PDF file that you open with it- That is what the software does and, in fact, what it is supposed to do.
It is so simple that anyone with Illustrator and a PDF file can duplicate my results 100% of the time.
This simplicity is what should be explained to any birthers-on-the-edge who may actually be reasoned with regarding this. No need to tell them to scan anything in any certain way, etc.
Open ANY PDF file in Illustrator, and Illustrator creates "layers" and "groups" just like on the President's PDF BC.
Posted by: obsolete | April 30, 2011 at 06:34 AM
Obsolete,
I see your point.
Posted by: Greg Brown | April 30, 2011 at 10:41 AM
This comment from that usconstitution.net thread from poster Klingon summed up the issue best & provided a great link for the definition of NBC:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html
"The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;"
Posted by: G | April 30, 2011 at 11:32 AM
Is Dr. Kate giving up birtherism for antisemitism?
Check out her latest broadcast. This is some of the most vile stuff I have ever heard. (And I have heard a lot in my lifetime.)
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/drkate/2011/04/29/drkates-revolution-radio-walls-in-our-minds
Posted by: Mr Sharky | April 30, 2011 at 02:52 PM
Stumbled across this blog. Has anyone ever heard of this guy before? http://wahrheitmacher.blogspot.com/2011_04_01_archive.html
Posted by: Jennifer C | April 30, 2011 at 05:30 PM
Jennifer C - Can't say I have, but the side links are the usual sovereign citizen and teahaddist links. Seems to claim to be orthodox clergy as well.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | April 30, 2011 at 07:28 PM
Mr. Sharky - Wow, that's REALLY vile.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | April 30, 2011 at 08:05 PM
Jerome Corsi's upcoming book has dropped off the Amazon.com best seller list altogether. That didn't take long to go from #2 to obscurity. Joey Farah is watching his cash cow dry up.
Posted by: GeorgetownJD | May 01, 2011 at 08:21 AM
Patrick, have you seen Seth Meyer's turn at the White House correspondents' dinner?
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/tv/trump-and-that-fox-on-his-head-not-amused-by-seth-meyers-video
His jokes about The Donald start at about 12:00. Everyone's laughing while The Donald sits stony-faced, giving Seth the stinkeye.
Posted by: MaryRC | May 01, 2011 at 09:11 AM
It really is worth watching the WHOLE clip of BOTH performances by Obama & Seth Meyers.
http://www.c-span.org/WHCD/
BOTH of them start out with lampooning the Birther issue (you have to watch Obama's patriotic video opening, using Hulk Hogan's "I'm a Real American" song...) and they've got a host of great slams sprinkled throughout, with some real zingers delivered at Trump, Fox News & the RW in general.
Definitely the whole performance is a MUST SEE!!!
Posted by: G | May 01, 2011 at 03:49 PM
G - Oh, I fell over laughing at the "birth video" part. And get a warm and chuckly feeling about the gibbering incoherent fit President Obama's entire bit must have sent some of the birtherstani into.
The whole thing was a giant FOAD to the birthers.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | May 01, 2011 at 03:55 PM
If Bin Laden is really dead as the reports suggest - *Way to go* Obama and shame on liberals who disparaged our president for focusing on Afghanistan/Pakistan which we should have done in the first place.
Major victory for camp Obama. Another blow to birtherstan.
Posted by: Mr. Mojo | May 01, 2011 at 08:49 PM
Orly is griping about the unfortunate timing of the death of bin Laden in relation to her Ninth Circuit oral argument:
"Our court hearing is scheduled to start in just a few hours. Major networks are supposed to be there with cameras rolling. Suddenly, Obama announces that the body of Osama Bin Ladin is found and we need to prepare for a possible terrorist act. Perfect timing!"
Get over it, bitch! The rest of consider this cause for jubilation.
Posted by: GeorgetownJD | May 01, 2011 at 08:56 PM
The tears are flowing a bit... Realizing I've internalized a good bit of frustration and hurt over this man I love and admire being so demonized and lied about... I'm so thankful that this happened for Obama AND AMERICA, it's a victory SO WELL DESERVED.
Posted by: Mr. Mojo | May 01, 2011 at 09:18 PM
I wonder if Trump and friends will want to see the long form death certificate before they believe Bin Ladens dead.
Posted by: Phil | May 01, 2011 at 09:46 PM
Holy SHIT. Welcome to the dustbin of history, birthers.
Posted by: Jax | May 01, 2011 at 10:13 PM