In today's dispatches, the Birther Ballot Jihad attempts continue. And in come cases, the birthers past legal history are their own worst enemy. Meanwhile the birtherstani seem to be going "Old News is Fun, Yay!"
Professional Seditionist Sharon Rondeau wants to know why tranny hunter and pink plastic phallus owner/operator Darren Huff is in jail, when there are real criminals that should be there (by which she means "debunkers"). Meanwhile, the racism in birtherstan continues to be on the increase.
Dr. Orly tries to shoehorn herself into Georgia anyway, while her Yahoo continues to be a hot zone. Walter Fitzpatrick still can't accept responsibility for his actions. And Gary Nance comes up with a theory on citizenship that harkens back to the thrilling days of the 1930's and 40's.
16 February - In the California Birther Ballot Jihad, the birtherstani get a reply from the Attorney General for the State of California.
(Scribd link here)
Of note, the Table of Authorities cites Keyes v Bowen and Robinson v Bowen.
"This matter is what has come to be known as a "birther" case, a lawsuit premised on the notion that President Barack Obama is not a "natural born citizen" as required by the United States Constitution and therefore ineligible to hold the office of President of the United States. Based on this purported ineligibility, Petitioners, proceeding pro se, seek a peremptory writ of mandate directing California Secretary of State Debra Bowen to bar President Barack Obama from the 2012 ballot."
In other words "the usual crap".
"Additionally, it is federal law that provides a mechanism for lodging objections to presidential candidate qualifications. And because Petitioners did not bring this action until after President Obama was elected and inaugurated for the first time more than four years ago, the action is barred by the doctrine of laches."
Basically, no, no magic reset button, sorry.
"According to the petition, "were Respondent Bowen to decide riot to use her discretionary authority to vet declared candidate Obama for the 2012 Presidential Election cycle in California Petitioners would suffer irreparable harm[.]"
Yeah, they may face four more years of spewing screaming hatred, lies, and blatant racism unless someone makes sure that Scary Black Man doesn't run again!!
"In a decision published last year, the Third District Court of Appeal concluded that the relevant Election Code provisions "do not impose a clear, present, or ministerial duty on the "Secretary of State to determine whether the presidential candidate meets the eligibility criteria of the United States Constitution." (Keyes v. Bowen (2011) 189 Cal.App.4th 647, 659.) Like Petitioners here, the petitioners in Keyes were "people who claim President Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen of the United States of America and, hence, is ineligible to be the President." (Id. at p. 651.)"
Don't you just love it when defense attorneys bring up the birthers past failures??
"Keyes acknowledged that California's Secretary of State is the state's chief elections officer and is responsible for ensuring "that elections are efficiently conducted and that state election laws are enforced …. " (Keyes v. Bowen (2011) 189 Cal.App.4th 647, 658, quoting Gov. Code, § 12172.5.) But the" court went on to conclude that these obligations do not include a duty to investigate a candidate's constitutional qualifications. (Id. at p. 659.) As the only published decision of a California appellate court on the question, Keyes is controlling precedent in the present proceeding."
On other words "didn't you read what we told you all LAST time???
17 February - Kerchner files his pile of poo in the Pennsylvania Birther Ballot Jihad.
(Scribd link here).
It's interesting in so far as the attorney did what seems to be the absolute minimum needed for this petition. And that the primary legal source for the two citizen parent theory Kerchner cites seems to be Mario Apuzzo.
You know, Apuzzo and Donofrio have a pretty good scam going. Neither of them have bothered to actually defend their ever increasing legal theories in court past their single original cases, they keep spinning ever-more absurd claims, and neither of them are willing to allow any debate or discussion on their theories. And yet the birthers eat it up with a spoon.
17 February - Birther repeat offender Ken Allen files the Arizona Birther Ballot Jihad.
It's pretty much the typical de Vattelist cut and paste.
And in comments:
"Anonymous said…[Reply] Nothing positive will happen. I admire all the hardworking, smart legal people who are chasing "the Ghost". But remember -- please remember-- you are using OLD OUTDATED TOOLS; the tools of the former USA / Constitution. THAT country and those laws no longer EXIST-- we live in post-constitutional America. The law of tyrants & Chicago thugs & radical Islam govern today. You must absorb this horrible fact, in order to survive. Adapt or perish! February 17, 2012 5:16 PM"
"Anonymous said…[Reply] Don't know about time travel, but I did take some mediumship classes with a Medium who was employed by the CIA and her gifts were used until they asked her to bring down a plane. She refused and stopped her work with them. You can believe what you want, this is a very true story and yes our Gobernut is very involved in the Psychic world. February 19, 2012 6:27 AM"
17 February - Dr. Orly dumps her usual load of legal dingo droppings upon Mississippi.
What's interesting is that the people at Birther Report are all but ignoring Dr. Orly to talk about time travel, psychic remote viewing, and teleportation to Mars.
18 February - Have you noticed lately how much the birthers are recycling older and older stories??
Case in point, Steady Drip Sam Sewell posts a YouTube video under the caption:
"Is Obama a Foreign Muslim Masquerading as an American Christian? - I don't know, but he sure doesn't sound like an American Christian!"
The video itself was posted onto YouTube on 7 August 2009. And exposed as an example of creative editing on 4 December 2009.
It's pretty bad when all they have are debunked lies.
18 February - Professional Seditionist Sharon Rondeau wonders why Darren Huff is in prison, instead of birther debunker Fogbow Foggy.
First off, she may want to ask Carl Swensson, since he was the one who ratted out Huff and Fitzpatrick to the FBI.
"Both Huff and Fitzpatrick are veterans of the U.S. Navy. Fitzpatrick is a retired Lt. Commander, and Huff served in Operation Desert Storm. Huff and Fitzpatrick have an entry at Wikipedia which begins, “The refusal to accept that Obama is the lawful president has led to acts of civil disobedience that have been criminally prosecuted.”
Sounds pretty accurate.
"In interviews leading up to Huff’s trial which were published at The Post & Email, Huff said that “nothing happened” on April 20, 2010. The mainstream media had widely labeled Huff a “birther” and accused him of plotting a “courthouse takeover.”
Maybe because he was a birther who was involved in an attempt to take over the courthouse??
"Huff has denied any intent to commit violence of any kind, and the courthouse was not “taken over” that day."
Due to advance warning and the arrest of some of the principals.
"Prior to his conviction, Huff had submitted pleadings to the federal court in Knoxville in defense of his Second and Fifth Amendment rights. His defense attorney, Scott Green, stated during the trial that “there was nothing to see” that day in Madisonville."
The jury seems to have disagreed.
"Bryan is reportedly an attorney who no longer practices and the person “who forged and distributed a fraudulent Kenyan birth certificate in August 2009.” He appears to be the administrator of The Fogbow, a pro-Obama website with forums in which members discuss the latest eligibility challenges, refute the allegations that the “long-form birth certificate” Obama showed to the public is a forgery, and “ridicule in vile and abusive terms” such individuals as Darren Huff, Walter Fitzpatrick, and readers of this newspaper as well as its editor. The Post & Email cannot link to The Fogbow forum because of its obscene content."
By "obscene content", she means "Wahhhhh!!! They tell the truth about us!!!!"
I wouldn't be surprised if Rondeau gets to the point of demanding all debunkers be arrested for the thoughtcrime of doubleplus ungood birtherdebunk.
"It is possible that “PJ Foggy” has attempted to take down The Post & Email on numerous occasions."
And your proof of this is???
"Of the news that Huff’s sentencing had been postponed, Fitzpatrick said:
Mr. Bryan, who is an Obot, is being teflon-coated. Mr. Bryan needs to be placed under arrest and held accountable for the events of 20 April 2010 because he has admitted to being responsible for them. We shouldn’t be talking about Darren’s sentencing at this point; we should be talking about Darren’s release and the connection to Obama’s FBI top dogs.
How about your buddy Carl Swensson instead? He was the one who ratted you out to the FBI.
"In the meantime, they’re looking to sentence Darren. Darren should be released; he’s committed no crime. He wasn’t responsible for that extraordinary police response. Who is? The man who admitted to doing it: William Bryan."
You know who was responsible for that "responsible for that extraordinary police response"???
All the people saying they were going to "take over the Monroe County courthouse and free Walter Fitzpatrick", that's who.
"It the past, it has been considered a crime to give false information to the FBI. Martha Stewart was convicted and jailed for allegedly doing so. Did Bryan lie to the FBI about “armed men” who would be attempting to “take over the courthouse?” Is it no longer a crime to lie to the FBI or other investigators because Obama is in office?"
Foggy passed on to the FBI the exact words that the people involved had posted on-line, along with the URLs for those comments.
Fitzpatrick and his fellows really, really, really hate to take personal responsibility for their actions.
"In 2009, The Department of Homeland Security had assigned the term “extremist” to returning war veterans, gun owners, and about those “expressing concerns about the election of the first African American president” (page 4 of 9). Its report was “coordinated with the FBI.”"
And said report was started under the Bush administration.
"So why has William L. Bryan not been prosecuted for his claim that he “got more than 100 cops ready for Cdr. Walt Fitzpatrick, when he showed up on April 20 with a group of armed men who thought they’d take over the Monroe County courthouse?” Is he being protected by someone? the TBI? the FBI? the Obama regime?"
Try "reality"
"Why was Huff’s conviction “a great achievement?” If someone else committed the crime, why is Huff sitting in jail?"
Because a jury of his peers examined the evidence and judged Huff guilty. Next?
18 February - In what passes for "Journalism" at the Pest and eFail.
"In Arab parliaments/legislatures they have the decency to throw shoes at one another. In some European countries they throw fruit or chairs at one another. In San Francisco they have limp-wristed slap fights when disputes break out."
I suspect the writer has a few…..issues…..to work out.
19 February - The latest pile of poo from birther nutcase Rudy "LoneStar1776"
19 February - The inmates at Birther Report go all ga-ga over Kerchner's petition.
"Barbara Blakeley said…[Reply] Outstanding! Citing to Mario's "essay" was brilliant. February 19, 2012 3:23 PM"
Yep, it undermines Kerchner quite nicely to cite the questionable ramblings of a DUI attorney.
"Anonymous said…[Reply] I met face to face on 1/26/12 with staff members of Congressman Patrick Meehan (Springfield, Pa. ) in their office on Sproul Rd. I will send you the follow up letter that I sent on this entire lawlessness by the Democratic Party & Barry Soetoro. At that time, the Georgia court hearing and ALL the IRREFUTEABLE evidence was in play in Ga. Mr. Meehan & staff have copies of several articles by experts, validating the evidence, but worrying about the corrupted judicial process here in the former USA. I will be following up shortly-- as a former prosecutor, I am confident that Mr. Meehan will stand "shoulder to shoulder" with true American Patriots in order to CURE the DISEASE known as OBAMA. Good job Mr. Kerchner. Mr. G. Khan February 19, 2012 5:20 PM"
Ooookay.
"bn said…[Reply] I think this one has the best chance yet. Serious, respected people and no Orly. February 19, 2012 6:03 PM"
With plaintiffs and arguments that have failed time and time again.
19 February - *chuckle*
"The Triumvirate of Birtherstan estimates that you are not donating enough to sustain their futile efforts at removing a duly vetted and elected President. They commit sedition at every defeat for advocating harassment and/or violence towards Judges, clerks,other government officials, and even private citizens. Accusing governmental officials when decisions do not go your way of "corruption" "treason" and "making love out of season" or denigrating the President as a "thug" does little to advance your deluded cause."
20 February - At the Pest and eFail, birther and "Oath Keeper" Hector Maldonado gets upset that the Missouri Elections Committee wouldn't let him go de Vattelist.
"The Military cannot win this war. And be not mistaken, Barack Obama has declared war on the American way of life. Politicians continue to say they just don’t understand why Barack Obama can’t see that his policies are failing. The problem is he does see the effects. And for Obama, things are going according to plan. His plan is to fundamentally transform America and pillage her wealth, destroy her economy and create a dependency of the middle class. Please join us. He has called us his enemies. It’s now our fight. Godspeed."
Sedition much??
20 February - Even though she was told "no, you can't have Pro Hac Vice, not yours". Dr. Orly decided to continue her part of the Georgia Birther Ballot Jihad. (malware and redirect warning)
"Petition for Letters Rogatory was filed with Judge Wright Fulton County Superior Court
Posted on | February 20, 2012"
(Scribd link here)
"Dr. Orly Taitz ESQ (Hereinafler Taitz) represented plaintiffs in this case in the administrative court and was granted pro had vice right to represent the Plaintiffs without a signature of a GA attorney, as is usually the case when an out of state attomey represents indigent plaintiffs pro bono and the underlying complaint relates to violations of civil rights."
And I suspect that, after reviewing your appearance in that case, the judge didn't want to get taitz all over the courtroom.
"It is apparent, though, that this court places form over substance and found the need for a local attomey to co-sign the pleadings to be more important than the underlying issue of the most egregious violation of human rights and civil rights in the history of this nation, namely Barack Obama's (Hereinafter "Obama") lack of any valid identification papers and his use of a stolen Social Security number and his practice of posting a computer generated forgery on line as a basis and documentary legitimation of his presidency and a 2012 presidential run."
The angels cough up more blood.
And I'm sure will be impressed by your temper tantrum on "how DARE you tell me no! Screech!!!"
"As such, in the absence of the pro had vice authorization from this court, and lack of local attomeys with enough strength of character to take on the issue of egregious criminality committed by the sitting President, Taitz advised the plaintiffs to proceed pro se. Taitz. herself. proceeds pro se for a limited purpose of seek ins Letters Rogatorv from this court to the First Circuit court of HI and DC court."
Insult the local legal establishment and then make demands so you can go harass people in DC and Hawaii.
That will go over well.
"Judge Malihi was asked to simply request assistance from a fellow judge in Hawaii with jurisdiction over Fuddy. Judge Malihi was either not understanding, what was requested or he was intentionally shielding Obama."
At this point, one is almost hoping she gets PHV status so that the judge can sanction her happy ass.
"Without any identification papers to show for, in violation of subpoena, Malihi had to rule against Obama. Tailz put on the stand 7 highly qualified witnesses, showing Obama using a stolen Social Security number and a forged birth certificate, not having any valid identification papers. Malihi, who was supposed to rule based on precedent and facts, did the opposite, totally disregarded precedents and facts and for yet to be determined consideration and without one shred of evidence "assumed" that Obama is eligible to be on the ballot."
Actually he had all the evidence your "experts" provided. And didn't believe any of them.
"For yet to be determined consideration secretary of state Kemp rubber stamped Malihi's decision."
Wow. She just accused the Georgia Secretary of State of accepting a bribe.
"If this court sends letters rogatory to the First Circuit court in Hawaii and the Superior Court in the District of Columbia, such best evidence can be obtained. It is imperative for this court to send Letters Rogatory to the First Circuit court of Hawaii, seeking subpoena for the Director of Health of the state of Hawaii to produce for inspection the original 1961 long form birth certificate for Barack Hussein Obama, which he claims exists. It is imperative for this court io send a letter rogatory to the Superior court of the District of Columbia asking for their assistance in issuing a subpoena for immigration and passport records for Barack Obama aka Barack(Barry) Soetoro aka Barack(Barry) Soebarkah,"
How does "when pigs fly" work for you?
"NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERNS
Taitz does not have access to all of the background information, and is not making an accusation or definitive allegation"
In other words, Dr. Orly is about to pull stuff out of her ass.
"a. When Malihi had Obama cornered with subpoena to appear at trial and present his identification records, it was clear that Obama had nothing to show and desperate Obama would do anything to keep his position and stay out of prison."
You mean that improper "subpoena" you issued??
"c. Malihi's background appeax to show, that he is an Iranian Muslim. While the administrative court of Georgia shows lengthy bios of other judges, there is only a blank page as a background ofJudge Malihi."
Ah, Dr. Orly is letting her racist freak flag fly.
"d. After Obama did not even show up at trial and did not provide any documents to prove his eligibility, while Taitz brought multiple witnesses, who provided the most incriminating evidence against Obama, inexplicably Malihi ruled that Obama can be on the ballot."
Because none of your "witnesses" were credible.
She really is losing her mind.
20 February - The Pest and eFail have an update on Walter Fitzpatrick.
"The system that they have here is not found in our constitution. This is treason writ large, and now we have everything that we need to demonstrate, in writing, using their documents, the “new model” that is being used in the state of Tennessee to accuse people, prosecute and convict them as innocent people."
See earlier comments about Fitzpatrick's inability to accept responsibility for his actions.
20 February - Dr. Orly continues to have problems with her Yahoo. (malware and redirect warning)
"I discovered more hacking.
someone entered from moderation into the blog a lot of Obot garbage and disinformation. On the other hand a lot of my e-mails disappeared and were never received, when sent from my yahoo and gmail accounts"
I will note that Adobe Illustrator Chico Papa happens to be Dr. Orly's IT technician. Doesn't speak much for his skills in IT if he can't keep her site and her Yahoo cleaned up.
20 February - Squeeky Fromm decides to provide a handy PDF for birthers to do their own court dismissals.
(PDF here)
"2. Attached to this Motion is Exhibit 1, which is an original FILE MARKED COPY of
the COMPLAINT that was filed.
3. So, I did too STATE A CLAIM and I put it in writing and everything!!! If somebody
says I didn’t state a claim, then they are just lying like a dirty dog!!!"
20 February - Gary Nance aka "Borderraven" takes a break from his hobby of taking videos of young girls at the beach to come up with a brand new twist on the de Vattelist nuttiness.
(Scribd link here)
In a nutshell, Nance argues that it's not enough to have two US citizen parents. Instead, in an ode to the Blut und Boden of the 1930's and 40's, one must be born of two US citizen parents who were born in the US. Foreign-born grandparents are okay, has long as they had the decency to become naturalized US citizens before giving birth to children on US soil.
This ranks up there with Padawan Paul's Sacred Sperm of US Citizenship theory.
How can Orly file anything pro se in a case in which she is not a named plaintiff?
Answer: she can't.
Posted by: Wild Bill | February 20, 2012 at 05:48 PM
Except Malihi did explain his decision.
Posted by: Glix | February 20, 2012 at 08:18 PM
There is an extra whiff of pathetic desperation in Birtherstan these days...
Posted by: G | February 20, 2012 at 10:36 PM
Orly is unhinged because now she won't be famous for taking down Obama. She was soooooooo sure. So, she has to at least blame some one. The more the better.
It's getting to be a long list.
Posted by: Bryan Slot | February 20, 2012 at 11:07 PM
"Dr. Orly's yahoo continues to be a hot zone."
Ewww!!!
Posted by: Joe Acerbic | February 21, 2012 at 01:33 AM
If this doesn't convince her fellow birthers she's doing the best she can to poison the well (i.e. tell the Superior Court how crazy the Obama challengers are, quick, before any other birfer lawyer can file anything), I don't know what will.
Orly could wear a "re-elect Obama 2012" shirt and birfoons would still send money.
Posted by: The Magic M | February 21, 2012 at 03:44 AM
Yowsers!
The SadFiction forum is an 'admiration society' for Orly.
You all should take heed when she posts about her past 1st hand experiences of life inside the Iron Curtain [old USSR]. It can happen here.
Posted by: Rambo Ike | February 21, 2012 at 04:39 AM
PayPal, PayPal, PayPal, Birfers don't hit that precious PayPal button unless you have all these important plates spinning in the air.
Emergency! Emergency!
Posted by: Suedb | February 21, 2012 at 05:49 AM
Yep. the Scent of Frustration perfume and cologne set seems to permeate all the the usual birfer blather.
Posted by: Suedb | February 21, 2012 at 05:52 AM
Kudos to Sam Sewell of Steady Drip for the video.
Even though Patty got his panties in a wad over it it is good to have a reminder of 0bumm0 strong Islamic roots. 0bumm0 is no Christian.
True, there is some creative editing in the video. But, also true is 0bumm0's deeply-established connection to the totalitarian political religion.
0bumm0 spent part of his grade school years as a citizen of Indonesia, known by his legal name at that time as Barry Soetoro, practicing his muslim faith.
Later, he joins his father-figure, the Reverand Wright [ex-muslim], at the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago where the 2 of them together for 19 years worshipped a marxist based Black Value System that had a non-negotiable commitment to Africa [not America]. When 0bumm0 was a member there their literature used to state, "We are an African people, and remain true to our native land," Again, not America.
Then we have 0bumm0 trashing and mocking Jesus's 'Sermon on the Mount', considered some of the most inspiring words from Jesus.
FactCheck does some spinning to cover for their comrade 0bumm0. In 0bumm0's Cairo speech: 'Since our founding, American Muslims have enriched the United States. … Islam has always been a part of America’s story. …" {That's a big fat LIE] The truth: Almost from the beginning of America's founding the muslims on the Barbary coast of Africa were at war with America. Attacking our ships, killing and enslaving our seamen.
And my favorite [Lmao]: 0bumm0 says the muslim call to prayer "is one of the prettiest sounds on earth." For the New York Times he quotes the Shahada [opening lines of the muslim prayer]. He knows that makes him a true believer, and will be seen by the Islamic world.
"Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet"
Posted by: Rambo Ike | February 21, 2012 at 06:35 AM
Excerpts from Robert L. Johnson's "The Deist Roots of the USA":
Franklin wrote in his autobiography: "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
When Ethan Allen stated that he did not believe in the Christian doctrine of original sin he was told that without original sin there is no need for Christianity. After reflection Allen agreed," there is no need for Christianity," he reasoned.
Jefferson described the Book of Revelation as, ". . . merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
Apparently President Obama is more of a mainstream Christian than many of the Founding Fathers.
Posted by: Thomas Brown | February 21, 2012 at 07:55 AM
"Rambo Ike" - So "creative editing" doesn't bother you as long as it's against Obama, eh?? Some of us have far more regard for the facts and truth then you do it seems.
You might want to check my "birther mythbusting" section. I've pointed out (repeatedly) that Barack Obama was a year two old to be granted Indonesian citizenship via adoption according to Indonesian law. (and couldn't have been granted it anyway, since a minor US citizen child cannot lose or renounce their US citizenship though actions of the parent or parents)
In addition, Islamic guidelines on adoption mandate that an adopted child NEVER take the family name of the adoptive father, since it's considered an insult to the birth father's family.
As for your comment about Muslims in the Early United States:
"Both house and ground were vested in trustees, expressly for the use of any preacher of any religious persuasion who might desire to say something to the people at Philadelphia; the design in building not being to accommodate any particular sect, but the inhabitants in general; so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service. " - The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin, Chapter Ten.
Among others that fought in the Revolutionary War were Peter Saleem, Yusuf Ben Ali, and Bampett Muhamed.
The first country to recognize the United States as an independent country was Morocco.
"All sober inquirers after truth, ancient and modern, pagan and Christian, have declared that the happiness of man, as well as his dignity, consists in virtue. Confucius, Zoroaster, Socrates, Mahomet, not to mention authorities really sacred, have agreed in this." - Thoughts on Government: Applicable to the Present State of the American Colonies - John Adams
As for the Barbary Pirates, you might want to check out the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - Article 11, the Treaty of Tripoli, 1796.
Thomas Jefferson was the first President to observe an Iftar dinner with the Ambassador from Tunisia. Rep. Keith Ellison later used a Quran owned by Thomas Jefferson to take his oath of office in the US House of Representatives.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | February 21, 2012 at 11:15 AM
@ Patty
No, I don't agree with the editing, but I'm glad to see it out there as a reminder, and besides it's nothing compared to the blatant lies coming from 0bumm0 and his marxist mafia.
Ok, I'll go on the assumption you're right about 0bumm0 not having an Indonesion citizenship. That still leaves us with a Barry Soetoro living in Indonesia practicing his muslim religion.
So you have no problem with his 19 years at Rev. Wright's church in Chicago? Mocking Jesus's Sermon on the Mount? Or, his reciting the muslim call to prayer for his towelhead friends?
I have no problem with Franklin's statement - that would be expected for a couple of reasons. I do have a problem with what Adams said, but I understand why he said it.
There were those in America practicing their muslim religion - it came with the slave trade.
This is sad. You missed big time here. You've swallowed too much of the left's revisionist history. Article 11 of the treaty was as fraudulant as 0bumm0 and his COLBS are. That article was not part of the original treaty - somebody slipped it in later. The version brought back for Congress to ratify is the only copy that it showed up in. There is alot to this. It's actually a 300 year war by the muslims.
Posted by: Rambo Ike | February 22, 2012 at 02:25 PM
@ Thomas BrownNose
You got 1 right: Ethan Allen, a pure deist. He despised Christianity
Franklin and Jefferson are birds of a different feather. I call them deist-light. They didn't believe in organized religion even though Jefferson attended church weekly during his presidency. Both strongly believed in Jesus.
Franklin: "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see."
Jefferson: "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
Then we have the 0bumm0, the Jive Turkey:
"Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet"
Posted by: Rambo Ike | February 22, 2012 at 03:00 PM
"Rambo Ike" - Ah yes, Hunter Miller's claim that Article 11 doesn't exist in the Arabic version.
Bear in mind that even Miller said:
"It is to be remembered that the Barlow translation is that which was submitted to the Senate (American State Papers, Foreign Relations, II, 18-19) and which is printed in the Statutes at Large and in treaty collections generally; it is that English text which in the United States has always been deemed the text of the treaty."
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | February 22, 2012 at 03:53 PM
@ Patty
Have you checked with a 'contract attorney' on this?
About 6 years ago I was involved in a heated debate over that Article 11 but it was regarding a different matter connected to it. At the time I spent some time researching it and found that Miller's claim about the Arabic version is most likely correct. Reports showed that Article 11 in the Arabic version was 'only' a letter from 1 towelhead ruler to another towelhead ruler of the Barbary Coast muslim countries.
With the American version the opening statement is correct regarding our government. It's further down the paragraph where the problem exist: "...it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
Prior to the treaty Adams & Jefferson met in London with the towelhead ambassador for the Barbary Coast states. The ambassador's response to Adams asking why they were attacking ships from a country [America] that did them no harm:
"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise."
Sound familiar to what we are experiencing today?
Posted by: Rambo Ike | February 23, 2012 at 09:02 PM
@ Rambo Ike - we get it. You live in daily fear of "muslims" under your bed and "coming to get you"...
So yeah, *yawn*, you've made it clear that you are an obsessed and craven religious bigot. Point made. Go back to cowering before the ebil muslims get you...
Man, life must suck for folks like you who spend all your time pissing your pants over imaginary fears...
Posted by: G | February 24, 2012 at 12:17 AM
@ G-string
I'm hoping your use of the phrase "we get it" was only meant for you, BrownNose, and your master Patty. Otherwise, one could deem from your remarks that this is a forum dedicated to a hatred for the declared principles and rights contained in America's Freedom Charters.
Only those truly ignorant of history would call it 'imaginary fears'.
"Under the bed". Been there & mocked the same way over the commies. Now after 8 to 10 years have lapsed people tell me I was right.
Posted by: Rambo Ike | February 24, 2012 at 11:25 PM
@ Rambo Ike - Hate to tell you the Cold War ended several decades ago. News flash: We won. Red Dawn was only a movie.
Yes, I laugh and mock your silly fears. Keep sucking your thumb and pissing your pants. America is well defended and strong. Obama has killed more Al-Qaeda leadership in his one term than Bush did in two.
Hate to inform you, but you are not patriot, even though you pretend to be one behind your keyboard. You are just a misguided chiken-little joke. The sky is not falling.
Posted by: G | February 25, 2012 at 12:12 AM
To be fair, when it comes to a forum where the writers and commenters show utter contempt towards the Constitution, their fellow citizens, and every single moral and legal principle this country was founded on; well, it's really hard to beat sites like the Pest and eFail, World Nut Daily, Gulag Bound, Birther Report, The Blaze, Oil for Immigration, Pravda OnLine, Canada Free Press, Free Republic, and other hate-filled treason and sedition-soaked sites like those.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | February 25, 2012 at 12:14 AM
This is easy to understand. Both G-string and his master Patty have spent some time getting re-educated at the Ministry Of Love on Bizarro World.
Their newthink Motto: Us hate Truth. Us love Cockamamie. Ignorance is Strength
Posted by: Rambo Ike | February 25, 2012 at 11:04 PM
Awww, what's the matter poor little Rambo Ike? All out of talking points that have blown up on you? You've had your ass kicked so bad here that you're reduced to muttering childish taunts and nothing else... ROTFL!
Posted by: G | February 26, 2012 at 04:48 PM
@ G-string
Nope, you got it wrong on the 'talking points'. Aside from your master Patty who displays a better than average IQ - too bad he uses it to deceive - others in his mindless flock such as you and ol' BrownNose are giving me a bad image. People are seeing it as me taking advantage of the handicapped.
Patty knows that the claims he made about them websites he listed were colossal whoppers. At least 5 if not more have been stalwarts at honoring and defending our Freedom Charters.
I'm laughing at your response to my 'commie statement'. G-string: "Hate to tell you the Cold War ended several decades ago. News flash: We won. Red Dawn was only a movie."
Yep, that's what the propagandists said, and you swallowed that tripe. Reality: It's a true-false statement.
I have smypathy for your family and what they must have gone through. Everytime they see you they wonder, 'what went wrong' & 'are they to blame'.
Posted by: Rambo Ike | February 27, 2012 at 10:41 AM
"Rambo Ike - "Patty knows that the claims he made about them websites he listed were colossal whoppers."
Which is really funny when you realize I not only repeat THEIR EXACT WORDS, but also provide links back to the posts and comments in question so that the readers can see for themselves and judge if I'm being accurate or not.
But if you're more comfortable thinking lies are the truth and the truth are "colossal whoppers", far be it from me to upset you with facts.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | February 27, 2012 at 11:55 AM
Oh Rambo Ike, keep singing your tune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4
Posted by: G | February 27, 2012 at 01:40 PM