In today's dispatches, the New York Times has an interesting article on political racism. Dr. Kate's floaters continue their tantrum. Dr. Orly and Walter Fitzpatrick have an interesting exchange.
Yet another death threat. Red State tells the secessionists to go away. A birther petition from a familiar name. Cody Judy wants support. Oh yeah, and money too. Joe Arpaio wants a beer date in the Rose Garden. Larry Klayman wants a public mass temper tantrum.
And World Nut Daily seems to have their very own inbred pompous arrogant ass of a peer, as Viscount Monckton settles down to pimping the Corsi/Arpaio dog and pony show, sneering at commoners who dare question his excellency's claims, and tongue-buffing Joseph Farah's hindquarters to a high-gloss shine.
10 November - Interesting article at the New York Times.
"…For close to the surface lies a political racism that harks back 150 years to the time of Reconstruction, when African-Americans won citizenship rights. Black men also won the right to vote and contested for power where they had previously been enslaved.
How is this so? The “birther” challenge, which galvanized so many Republican voters, expresses a deep unease with black claims to political inclusion and leadership that can be traced as far back as the 1860s. Then, white Southerners (and a fair share of white Northerners) questioned the legitimacy of black suffrage, viciously lampooned the behavior of new black officeholders and mobilized to murder and drive off local black leaders.
Much of the paramilitary work was done by the White League, the Ku Klux Klan and other vigilantes, who destroyed interracial Reconstruction governments and helped pave the road to the ferocious repression, disenfranchisement and segregation of the Jim Crow era."
"The truth is that in the post-Civil War South few whites ever voted for black office seekers, and the legacy of their refusal remains with us in a variety of forms. The depiction of Mr. Obama as a Kenyan, an Indonesian, an African tribal chief, a foreign Muslim — in other words, as a man fundamentally ineligible to be our president — is perhaps the most searing. Tellingly, it is a charge never brought against any of his predecessors."
Yeah, I've commented on that a few times…..
12 November - Such charming people at Dr Kate's cesspool.
"hammer and nail
November 12, 2012 at 11:02 am
Barnhardt points out the logistical nightmare of national security loss given balkanization of the United States.
The seaboard states would secede to the marxists and the central states to the conservatives, leaving a far less defensible situation, since the marxists would allow invasion by China and Russia.
Secession is not the answer, rather nullification of the existing Constitution and replacement with a VALID one..
Obama just sits at 1600 Muslim Avenue as a nothing, he legally heads nothing, he doesn’t even lead Washington DC. Legally he’s a nothing and that’s the starting point."
And the poodle-brained one remembers the secret cRAP masters.
November 12, 2012 at 11:09 pm
Bildo, What you say is so. The restore America plan people have been arguing. presenting and trying to organize a restoration based upon this fact for years. There’s Drake, Whitehats, Fulford and a whole group of people who discuss this regularly. There was even supposed to be a restoration this past year. Does any one remember the “secret governor’s packages” that were sent to all 50 governors? At this stage it seems it isn’t a matter of law but A MATTER OF MIGHT."
Or this patriotic soul…
November 12, 2012 at 2:36 pm
Growing number of states petition to secede
Personally, I’d rather see the dissolution of the Union than its take-over by the NWO and subsequent change to the People’s Islamic Republic of North America"
13 November - Walter Fitzpatrick must be getting desperate. Because he's asking Dr. Orly for help (malware and redirect warning)
"Dr, Counselor Taitz,
I’m asking you and groups of people who you can attract to formally file criminal charges naming OBAMA and his criminal assistants in commission of TREASON.
Fair winds, following seas,"
And how does she respond??
"1. I have a great respect to Commander Fitzpatrick and his years of service"
Does that include his "service" in relieving his ship's morale fund of excess cash??
"2. if Obama is not a US citizen, if he does not have valid papers, he cannot be convicted of treason, as you have to be a citizen to be convicted of treason, but he can be convicted of elections fraud and use of forged IDs. his accomplices, who are the U.S. citizens, may be committing treason
3. I filed criminal complaints wit US attorneys’ office and Attorney General offices, they did nothing, they are a part of the same establishment"
"Wahhh! Nobody is believing my lies!"
13 November - Walter Fitzpatrick isn't the brightest crayon in the box.
"COUNT THE MILITARY VOTES! WHY WEREN’T THE MILITARY VOTES COUNTED? SOUNDS LIKE FRAUD!
Military Absentee Ballots Delivered One Day Late, Would Have Swung Election For Romney"
"The Duffel Blog serves the men and women of the US Military with a daily dose of military humor, funny military pictures, and faux news. We take an interesting and funny look at military life. We focus on veterans, military stories, defense, politics (sometimes) and life on base — with a comedic twist. We are in no way, shape, or form, a real news outlet. Just about everything on this website is satirical in nature."
"The content of this site is parody. No composition should be regarded as truthful, and no reference of an individual, company, or military unit seeks to inflict malice or emotional harm. All characters, groups, and military units appearing in these works are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, or actual military units and companies is purely coincidental."
If that wasn't enough of a clue, headlines like "DoD Seeks Corporate Sponsorship, Copenhagen, Budweiser Already On Board", "Confused WWII Veterans Demand To Know Why Rommel On Presidential Ballot", and "Navy To Deploy USS Constitution To Strait Of Hormuz" should have been a great big clue-by-four upside the head.
Then again, we are talking birthers here, who seem to have almost no critical thinking or fact-checking skills.
13 November - It looks like Walter Fitzpatrick didn't much like Dr. Orly's answer (malware and redirect warning)
"A RESPONSE FROM COMMANDER FITZPATRICK. HE SEEMS TO HAVE A DIFFERENT TAKE ON WHO CAN BE CHARGED WITH TREASON. REGARDLESS OF INTERPRETATION, MULTIPLE COMPLAINTS ON WHITEHOUSE.GOV WEBSITE, MULTIPLE PETITIONS FOR OBAMA TO RESIGN DUE TO HIS USE OF FORGED IDS MIGHT EVOKE SOME TYPE OF RESPONSE, AS IT IS A BAD PUBLICITY. ALL OF THE PEOPLE, WHO PETITIONED FOR SECESSION, SHOULD PETITION FOR RELEASE OF HIS ORIGINAL IDS OR HIS RESIGNATION DUE TO LACK OF ORIGINAL IDS
Posted on | November 13, 2012"
You mean the people that are less than a full percentage point of said state's population?
"Dr., Counselor Taitz,
Thank you for your diligent efforts.
Illegal aliens, foreign nationals can be accused of TREASON:
Federal and state judges have accepted criminal complaints naming OBAMA in TREASON, they just won’t act upon them.
I hold the belief that large numbers of folks filing these complaints will gain traction.
The problem is that the birthers have never seemed able to get the "large numbers of people"……
13 November - And yet another death threat.
"A Colorado man was charged on Tuesday in federal court with threatening to kill U.S. President Barack Obama during an October campaign visit, and court documents showed that he told investigators that he has had daily homicidal fantasies for years.
Mitchell Kusick, 20, was ordered held on a charge of making threats against the president pending a bond hearing in U.S. District Court in Denver on Friday.
A U.S. Secret Service affidavit unsealed on Tuesday also showed that Kusick, who was arrested on Friday, "made credible threats and took steps" toward shooting and killing children at a trick-or-treat Halloween event sponsored by a Denver-area high school.
"Kusick made statements about a desire to kill people on Halloween and that he had been tracking President Obama's schedule so he can assassinate the President," said the affidavit by Secret Service Agent Melissa Blake."
13 November - Red State sounds a bit cranky.
"Too many people have spent the past four years obsessed with birth certificates. Now they are obsessed with voter fraud conspiracies, talk of secession, and supposed election changing news stories if only we had known.
So let’s add dabblers in this latest nuttiness to birthers as a category of people we do not welcome at RedState. Our aim is to beat the Democrats, not beat a retreat to a Confederacy that Generals Grant and Sherman rent asunder well over a hundred years ago.
Even here at RedState, while we may not much care for him, President Obama is still our President and we are still quite happily citizens of the United States. If we must drain this fever swamp that’s taken hold of a few people on the right over this past week before we can drain the swamp in Washington, so be it.
All others need not apply."
13 November - Oh look. A birther petition.
"Peacefully grant all Citizens legal standing in any court, enabling a case on the merits regarding Obama's ineligibility"
So basically "ignore the law and let us do whatever we want in the courtroom.
"According to Art 2 of the Constitution, the President must be a natural born citizen. Because Obama's father was never a US citizen, it's impossible for him to be natural born, even if he was born in Hawaii.
The Civil Right's Act states "That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States"
Obama admits himself that he was born a British subject, but lost it at adulthood, so this proves he can't be natural born. These facts are validated by Supreme Court Case Minor v. Happersett which states "it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens""
Oh look. A de Vattelist.
The petition was started by a "Tracy F". Based on the wording, I suspect it's the latest from "KenyaBornObamAcorn" Tracy Fine. It's got about 15 signatures as of this writing……
13 November - Cody Judy seems to be trying to claim he's the next Great White Hope. Oh, and send money.
"The Petition for Rehearing has been sent today. People have to understand that Mitt Romney is gone and if Obama is declared ineligible it will not bring Mitt Romney into the White House with a win, and that is due to his conceding the race. Its a difficult situation and one major reason its really a stupid business decision to concede a race before all the ballots are counted., especially to be seen as a 'good guy'.
That's probably one "not so smart" business decision Mitt Romney made and my decision not to concede the election is bringing lots of ridicule, name-calling, derision, anger, and generally a stomping and gnashing of teeth from many people.
The only thing I can say is "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names and faces I'm pretty used to." ;) I've never thought being a "derogatory name" was part of making sure a bad situation was made right, especially when it included adherence to the Constitution of the United States. So what's going to happen?
There are many things that could happen including a new election, but it might be open and would not consider Mitt Romney's 2012 votes that were conceded. If Republicans and Conservatives want another 4 years of Obama the best thing they can do is NOT HELP ME.
If they don't want another 4 years of Obama the best thing they can do is to take a stand with me for the Constitution, help me by contributing to the campaign or spreading my post, so others who have a little extra money can be made aware of this."
14 November - Viscount Monckton seems to have been reduced to carrying water for the Maricopa CCCP and the Corsi/Arpaio dog and pony show.
"An angry statement just sworn by the lead investigator of a team assigned to review Barack Obama’s birth certificate says Hawaii officials – who are Democrats like Obama – are using “elaborate non-cooperation” to conceal birth records from law enforcement and the public.
The sworn affidavit comes from Cold Case Posse lead Mike Zullo just a week after the publication of a sworn mathematical analysis demonstrating the near-zero probability that the White House “birth certificate” is genuine."
What Monckton fails to note is that the "sworn mathematical analysis" is his own - and is completely valueless
But meanwhile, he reports that Mike Zullo is having a temper tantrum.
"Zullo’s affidavit charges these officials are “hiding” original birth records, thwarting the posse’s hunt for those who forged the document at the White House website.
His detailed catalog of Hawaii’s misfeasance is shocking.
After two visits to the islands in the past six months, he has “chronicled a series of inconsistent and misleading representations” that various officials of the government of Hawaii have made since he was assigned to the case when 250 voters petitioned their sheriff to investigate the dodgy document more than a year ago."
Translation - "Wahhh! They wouldn't let me violate Hawaiian State Law and do what I wanted!""
"Jill Nagamine, Hawaii’s deputy attorney general, spoke to Zullo at his insistence but “refused to verify the authenticity” of the birth certificate released to the American public on the government’s whitehouse.gov site.
Nagamine “would not provide us with any confirmation that the document was created by the Hawaii Department of Health.”
She accused Zullo of “trying to get a verification of a birth record without legal authority.”
Yet the duly deputized investigators had presented their credentials to police in Honolulu before interviewing her."
Mr. Zullo. You have *some* legal authority in Maricopa County, Arizona. NOT the State of Hawaii. As such, any legal actions you attempt to make there have to be consistent with Hawaiian State Law AND with the full approval of Law Enforcement within the State of Hawaii AND the Hawaiian State Court system.
You can't wave your deputy dawg toy badge around outside of Maricopa County and expect people to roll over on their backs and wave all four paws in the air.
"Zullo went to the Kapiolani Hospital, where the forgery says Obama was born. He asked to see the publicly available birth records for 1961, the alleged year of his birth. The hospital “less than politely refused.”
Management failed even to confirm Obama had been born there, “nor did they confirm that they were in possession of his birth records.”
What part of HIPPA are you not understanding??
The PDF for Mike Zullo's latest "sworn affidavit" is here Most of it is a rehash of classic birther lies, mixed with a "wahhh, the State of Hawaii wouldn't let us wave our toy deputy dawg badges around and do what we want" whine.
"Ms. Nagamine accused us of trying to get a verification of a birth record without legal authority to do so, even though the document has been offered for public view via the World Wide Web."
Maybe because you WERE??
"The Cold Case Posse has also noted that Mr Obama's first Executive Order issued on his first full day as President, was to seal all of his own past records from public scrutiny."
"Furthering the investigation, I returned to Hawaii for a second time. I met Mr Duncan Sunahara, the brother of Virginia Sunahara, an infant born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961, the alleged date of Mr Obama's birth there. Ms Sunahara died the following day, August s, after breathing difficulties"
Did you offer him payment in Iraqi dinars as well??
"50. Ms Nagamine also said that the entire volume of birth certificates inferentially containing not only Ms Sunahara's long-form original birth certificate but also those of twins born at about the same date had been removed to a special, secure location with very limited access. I do not know what purpose the Department of Health had in preserving these records at all, unless it was to show them upon request to family members and others - such as law enforcement - with a legitimate and statutory interest in seeing the documents."
Or, more than likely, the Department of Health has been repeatedly harassed and threatened by conspiracy nutjobs and had a very real concern someone would try to steal or destroy that volume. Zullo's actions being a case in point as to WHY that volume is now in a "special, secure location with very limited access"
"The law-enforcement investigation by and on behalf of the Sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona, would be greatly assisted, and could be brought swiftly, inexpensively, and decisively to an end, if the Department of Health and the management of the Kapi'olani Hospital were willing to allow court-recognized forensic experts selected by the Sheriff of Maricopa County to inspect and forensically examine the volumes of long-form original birth certificates for 1961 and the birth records kept by the Kapi'olani Hospital for that year. It should be noted that forensic experts are trained in the management and preservation of paper records, and would cause no damage to the records in the course of their forensic examination."
There's a few problems here:
1) Maricopa County, Arizona has no law enforcement influence in the State of Hawaii. The proper thing for Maricopa County, Arizona to do would be to have a Maricopa County court submit a request for access to the State of Hawaii, and have a Hawaiian State Court rule on the validity of such a request under Hawaiian State Law.
Since the last thing Zullo or Arpaio has wanted to do is to submit their claims anywhere NEAR an actual court, this is unlikely to happen.
2) The Sheriff of Maricopa County and his office has shown a bias against the State of Hawaii and the Department of Health for the State of Hawaii. Therefore, any "experts" he chose may not be seen as acceptable to the State of Hawaii or the Department of Health for the State of Hawaii. The best that could be expected is that the court rule that professionally neutral experts that would be acceptable to both sides be used. Again, under the guidelines of Hawaiian State Law though.
3) None of the "experts" that Zullo, Corsi, or Arpaio have routinely cited are trained or certified forensic document experts. None of them have any experience in such. None of their evidence would be acceptable in a court of law.
4) The request made runs afoul of both State and Federal privacy laws protecting vital records, preventing identity theft, and protecting patience privacy. A proper court would have to have far better reasons than the pack of festering lies Zullo, Corsi, and Arapaio have claimed to bypass those laws.
Basically this is an extended temper tantrum by Zullo that they spent a year trying to throw crap against the wall, and not only did none of it stick, but authorities in Hawaii weren't impressed by Joe Arpaio or his grandstanding.
14 November - Transcript of Dr. Orly's court appearance in Kansas.
(Scribd link here)
14 November - Viscount Monckton writes a World Nut Daily article to pimp his other World Nut Daily article.
"Count on it. The devastating sworn statement by the chief investigator of Mr. Obama’s forged White House birth certificate, exclusively revealed by WND today, will not be mentioned by any mainstream news medium."
Because it's a steaming pile of crap completely untouched by anything close to professional ethics?
"Only WND gives you the facts and goes where even Fox News impishly fears to tread. They cower; we report; you decide."
So, Viscount Monckton. Just what DOES Joseph Farah's prostate taste like??
"When the history of Obama’s fall comes to be written, WND’s revelation of Sheriff Arpaio cold-case posse chief Mike Zullo’s affidavit will be recorded as the moment the position of Black Jesus – as one of his staff dubbed him – became untenable."
Somehow, I strongly doubt that…..
"The Zullo Memorandum reads like a top-notch thriller. But it is not fiction."
Well, it's certainly not fact.
"If Obama’s birth records are the real deal, why won’t Hawaii let the scrutineers demonstrate that those the hard left dub “birthers” are indeed pointy-heads?"
Because the birthers are pretty damn effective at demonstrating that all by themselves.
"What are the chances a forgery engaged in by one of the most powerful people in the world would be so bad?
How come the conspirators are extremely effective at keeping everything about their operations hidden, but inept at forging simple documents?"
And here lies one of the fundamental paradoxes of the birther mindset. They have to see President Obama as some evil genius able to create a multi-decade conspiracy for some nasty purpose. And yet their fundamental hatred for President Obama, (not to mention the latent racism by many of them) means they have to mock his intelligence and achievements. Which is why you have the absurdity of some master conspiracy being able to groom someone to take office and activate their wicked plans, but are unable to forge a document that would past muster by a copier salesman, a retired clerk-typist, a Ph.D. in "instructional media" and some inbred noble nitwit.
Logically, it simply doesn't mesh together. Yet the birther mind MUST believe this paradox in order to work.
14 November - Viscount Monckton must be getting paid by the word or something.
"This reply will concentrate on those who disagree with my analysis, whom I shall divide into four categories: the loonies, who unfairly attack Obama ad hominem; the reasoners, who address my argument rationally and to the point, if often erroneously; the yah-boos, who have merely perpetrated and perpetuated the left’s characteristic logical fallacy of attacking the man ad hominem rather than addressing the substance of his argument ad rem; and the do-nothings, who wring their hands and say nothing can be done about the forgery."
The irony here is that he himself is using the ad hominem attack here.
"Let us get those who challenge my math out of the way. Professor Charles Delzell of Louisiana State University has a stellar mathematical resume. He contacted me out of the blue to tell me he had sent his congressman and his two senators my affidavit that found only a 1 in 75 sextillion probability that Obama’s “birth certificate” and other identity documents are genuine. He wrote that he had told them he endorsed my mathematical reasoning. I asked him for an affidavit saying that. “>He kindly supplied sworn and notarized testimony confirming and endorsing my findings."
The Delzell affidavit (PDF here) is interesting. Basically he's stating that Monckton's "analysis" is valid ONLY IF THE UNDERLYING DATA IS VALID. The underlying data being the "reports by Mara Zebest, Paul Irey, Douglas Vogt, and the other so-called "experts".
Since Monckton is using flawed data (and more than likely knowingly using flawed data), his analysis is meaningless.
“Silly birther nonsense” from one commenter and, from another, “You birthers are part of the reasons Mitten is losing. You’re a disgrace.” I am no birther. I have no idea where Mr. Obama was born. It may even be that he has no idea either. But the White House document is a forgery.
You constantly repeat and refine birther nonsense.
Sorry, you're a birther. Your claim that you're not a birther is much like if you were claiming "I'm not a sheep shagger, really! Yes, I've occasionally been found in the past in the back pasture with my pants around my ankles giving some lovely ewe a good strong rogering, but it doesn't mean I'm a sheep shagger!!!"
You're a birther. Cope.
"The emblem of the Houses of Parliament shows the royal Crown surmounting a portcullis. The commenter – a U.S. citizen – is perhaps unaware of the distinction between a royal Crown and a vicecomital coronet. His ignorance was temporarily shared by the Clerk of the Parliaments, who has now been disabused of this and other foolish notions that he had at one stage unwisely entertained.
As for the “not-a-member-of-the-House-of-Lords” brigade, I am a member of the House, but without the right to sit or vote. Get over it. True, the aforementioned Clerk once wrote me an arrogant letter saying I was not entitled to say that. But he was ill advised to do so, and – disgracefully – did so without first having obtained the authority of the House. He has no doubt been told off by his betters for his folly."
The blinding arrogance here (basically "how DARE this low-born clerk tell ME that I'm NOT a member of the House of Lords! Who DOES he think he is???") is pretty stunning. And while I'm sure Monckton thinks that it was "ill advised", the simple fact of the matter is that the letter in question - dated 18 July 2011, is still up on the website of the UK House of Parliament. Quote:
"I must repeat my predecessor's statement that you are not and have never been a Member of the House of Lords. Your assertion that you are a Member, but without the right to sit or vote, is a contradiction in terms. No-one denies that you are, by virtue of your letters Patent, a Peer. That is an entirely separate issue to membership of the House. This is borne out by the recent judgment in Baron Mereworth v Ministry of Justice (Crown Office) where Mr Justice Lewison stated:"In my judgment, the reference [in the House of Lords Act 1999] to 'a member of the House of Lords' is simply a reference to the right to sit and vote in that House … In a nutshell, membership of the House of Lords means the right to sit and vote in that House. It does not mean entitlement to the dignity of a peerage."
I must therefore again ask that you desist from claiming to be a Member of the House of Lords, either directly or by implication, and also that you desist from claiming to be a Member "without the right to sit or vote".
There is nothing there resending or stating the letter was in error. Simply put, while you can call yourself Queen of the May and Lord High Sheep-Shagger all you wish, the fact is that the official opinion of the House of Lords is that you are not now or ever have been a member of that body, and your claims of being such are, at best, mistaken, and, at worse, a bald-faced lie.
"To track the progress of the investigation, you can rely exclusively on WND. The mainstream news media are in the tank for Obama. They have long since abandoned any attempt – or even pretense – at objectivity."
You really do like the taste of Joseph Farah's prostate, don't you??
"Their way of dealing with the growing embarrassment of having served as cheerleaders for this catastrophic non-president is to remain sullenly, miserably silent as Whitehousegate unfolds under their bulbous, alcohol-reddened noses."
Ah,there's that ad hominem attack again.
You know, anyone who carries water for Jerome Corsi shouldn't ever make comments about "bulbous, alcohol-reddened noses".
14 November - Joe Arpaio wants a free trip to the White House.
"Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio would like to have his own version of a "man-to-man" beer summit with President Barack Obama so he could give the president advice on dealing with immigration, the outspoken law enforcement official told Breitbart News in a story published Tuesday.
"I wish the president would invite me to the White House," he said, according to the website. "We'll have some wine and beer, and light up cigars."
Arpaio and the president don't see eye to eye on much -- the Maricopa County sheriff is a hardline opponent of comprehensive immigration reform, while Obama has said he plans to make reform, including pathways to citizenship, a top priority during his second term. The sheriff, who recently won reelection for his sixth term as the top law enforcement officer in the county, also led a highly criticized investigation into Obama's birth certificate and whether the president was actually born in the United States.
But Arpaio promised not to mention it if he and the president spoke, even though he has said before the document is "definitely fraudulent."
"I won't even ask you for your birth certificate," Arpaio told Obama through Breitbart News."
So half the birthers will think he's trying to sneak in there so he can arrest President Obama, put him in handcuffs, and march his uppity ass to to Tent City and pink underwear. The other half will be screaming that he cut a deal and is selling out.
14 November - Larry Klayman plans a public temper tantrum on inauguration day, 21 January 2013
"It is now apparent that governmental functions have totally broken down; neither political party represents the American people and in effect we have no Republic. I propose that we all band together and organize civil disobedience to begin on inauguration day, January 21, 2013 in Washington, D.C."
If it's anything like past birther rallies, I'm expecting tens upon tens of people.
"I think we all can agree that strong peaceful measures are required now, before the nation is totally destroyed."
Says the guy who was demanding an overthrow of the government in Fall of 2011.
"Please let me have your thoughts as soon as possible."
Okay, you're a pumpkin-headed dipshit. Is that soon enough for you?
Oh, and at Obama Ballot Challenge:
"Unless the plan is to band together and organize civil disobedience AND ATTEMPT TO PREVENT THE SWEARING IN OF THE RESIDENT-IN-CHIEF (for the 2nd time) on inauguration day (January 21, 2013 in Washington, D.C.) then any other sort of CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE is worthless. But I fear no one will have the cojones to do any such thing!
Edward C. Noonan, 20 hours ago"
Sore loser much Ed?