In today's dispatches, the latest bat guano from the NESARA crowd. Cody Judy notices the Supreme Court told him no and whines about it. Dr. Orly shows a complete ignorance of the law in her continued harassment of the court reporter in her Electoral College case.
Some commentary on Klayman's call to treason. The de vattelists are upset over the very thought the GOP might nominate someone swarthy with a funny last name. Sibley is told "no". More and more birthers are telling John Roberts he better do something or else.
Helen Tansy whines that Linda Jordan is being held accountable for her actions in wasting taxpayer money. Dr. Orly gets another chance to be told "no" by the Supreme Court. And "Birther Report" continues to circle the drain into the sewers of racist hate sites.
5 January - Oy…… Just oy……
"On Tuesday December 4th 2012, 503 congressmembers/governors/senators were arrested in DC- in what was called a "Catch & Release" event. They were arrested, brought before a supreme court judge, and they were given a document to sign which basically states that they will, from that day forward, work under constitutional law and uphold the true organic Constitution or they will spend the rest of their lives wearing orange PJs and peeling potatoes. Those were the marginal ones. The real bad ones- apparently 77- of them were shipped off to The Hague to be tried for serious crimes. I haven't been able to find out if those 77 ever came back or if they have been tried yet or sentenced. (and believe me, I've tried to get that information). HHHHMMMMM….WHEN DID HILARY PURPORTEDLY GO MISSING? MIGHT AS WELL CONNECT THE DOTS WHY YOU ARE AT IT…WHEN DID GEORGE W.H. BUSH PURPORTEDLY GO INTO THE HOSPITAL? :) I wasn't actually going to go there yet, but yes.On Wednesday, December 5th, 2012, A new American president was sworn in- to hold the office of "interim president" until real constitutionally sound elections take place. Obama is no longer the President of the United States of America and is acting as a figurehead at the moment because they have yet to announce the changes. At that point, NESARA Law was enacted and Americans have been under NESARA since then."
So who is, supposedly, the "new president"??
"Yes, Boehner is the new Interim President. This position is not about Boehner as a person, but about the position he holds as Speaker of the House. It has been explained to me that this directly relates to NESARA law.
Look in the media- since early December he has constantly been in the news- Constantly- and his speech to open the 113th Congress gives some broad hints at the change that is coming. Personally I don't like Boehner, and when I was initially told he had been sworn in as the Interim President my first reaction was: "WTF?!?", but I have been told that he has been put on a very short leash.
Once NESARA is announced, within a very short time frame, new constitutionally sound elections will take place and the People will choose their new president.
Right now there is a final kicking and screaming match going on by the Powers That Were- they are Terrified and absolutely Freaking Out. There is a final push to create fear and panic in the civilian population that mirrors their own dread. They have lost, and now they are faced with the final decision to make- only they can make that last choice."
The stupid, it burns…..
7 January - Is there a birther out there who DOESN"T act like a whiney baby when told no?? Cody Judy is the latest to need a nap and a binkie.
"My ,- Our- ;), "Petition for Rehearing" with the U.S. Supreme Court was "Denied". ; /"
And you're surprised why??
"Makes me feel bad because they wouldn't even hear it and in doing so they have basically, officially squashed the "natural born citizen" qualification for President in the Constitution without a word or hearing."
The fact that they've upheld every single lower court ruling on the subject should have given you a clue what the result of your appeal would have been.
"I just feel terrible they wouldn't even let us have an oral argument on it,just locked us out."
I think the Supreme Court has more important things to do than listen to a conspiracy-minded ex-felon with a history of mental illness.
"You know I can hardly believe it. I wish I had one of the Justices cell phones because it just doesn't make any sense. Without being able to speak with them we are left to take the "Clerk of the court's word" for it.
Because of the process I've been through I know its entirely possible they didn't see the case and some Clerks black-bagged it, but there's no way to talk to them."
Oh, so now he's borrowing Dr. Orly's favorite excuse, that the clerks somehow control the courts.
Delusional much?
"If not that, then you wonder if they are so threatened that they feel the compromise is in the broader interest of the agreement;say someone's got a nuclear pointed at NY, and they simple are black mailed, which is entirely possible.
Faced with that situation what we any of us do? Say good bye to 8 million Americans in NY? God.. that would be hard."
*Faceplant* Oh for pity's sake.
" I mean when the FBI, CIA, SCOTUS, Military and Congress say its okay to forge birth certificates and lie your way to the top what do you say?"
Funny, I don't recall the FBI, CIA, SCOTUS, Military and Congress saying its okay to forge birth certificates. Of course, the birthers have yet to show any evidence that any forgery was ever committed.
"One thing I do share is the frustration of many Americans who 'trust' their leaders and those they have elected to do the right thing and defend the Constitution. We have proven that Congress was shammed with the CRS Memorandums about Obama's birth certificate and that thousands of letters have gone out to the public with the advice of the sham perpetrated by Jack Maskell."
Oh for pity's sake. You've "proven" no such thing.
7 January - Just in case you had any doubts of Christopher Strunk's sanity, Obama Ballot Challenge gives us all a helpful example.
"Posting the stamped forms that were attached to the body of the Document at http://www.scribd.com/doc/117739292/CONFORMED-USCA-DC-Circuit-Petition-for-Writ-of-Mandamus-for-Relief-12-PENDING-OP-with-Application-for-fee-relief
Does not push the substance forward. Be very aware of a disinformation campaign now that Jesuit Stooge John Brennan the DOS document thief is appointed to DCI by the Usurper and Congress. Remember it was Brennan who spoliated and concealed Stanley Ann Dunham’s passport documents in December/January 2008 after the joint statement on NBC by Theodore B. Olson and Lawrence Tribe and then stole those documents along with the travel microfilm that Arpaio and Corsi search for at Nation Archives. The JESUITS re running BHO!!
Chris Strunk, 1 day ago"
Dear birthers. This is who you've allied yourself with. Enjoy!
8 January - Dr. Orly continues to harass the court reporter in Judge England's courtroom. (malware and redirect warning)
(Redaction mine)
"Orly Taitz
12:55 AM (0 minutes ago)
to kohalloran, bcc: Mario, bcc: Stephen
Dear Kelly,
I did not get a response yesterday. Please, call me at (redacted), so I can give you my credit card for the transcript. also, please advise me, who is in charge, who should I talk to about purchase of a copy of the audio tape of the proceedings, which is mandatory in every federal court"
I'm sure "Mario" (Apuzzo) and "Stephan" (Pidgeon) will note to Dr. Orly that there is no federal law mandating that an audio tape be available for purchase. (Yeah, I know, sure they will.)
"(b) Each session of the court and every other proceeding designated by rule or order of the court or by one of the judges shall be recorded verbatim by shorthand, mechanical means, electronic sound recording, or any other method, subject to regulations promulgated by the Judicial Conference and subject to the discretion and approval of the judge. The regulations promulgated pursuant to the preceding sentence shall prescribe the types of electronic sound recording or other means which may be used. …"
"(b) Permissible Reproduction. This Rule shall not prohibit recordings by a court reporter; provided, however, no court reporter or other person shall use or permit to be used any part of any recording of a court proceeding on, or in connection with, any radio or television broadcast of any kind. The Court may, in appropriate circumstances, permit photographs to be taken or recordings to be made under such conditions as may be imposed."
Guide to Judiciary Policy (US Courts), Vol 6: Court Reporting (PDF)
"§ 380.40 Back Up Tapes Made by Court Reporters Back up tapes made by court reporters for their own convenience and not otherwise required by 28 U.S.C. § 753 are the personal property of the court reporters. There is no public entitlement to these recordings, with the exception of recordings of arraignments, changes of plea, and sentencings filed with the clerk of court, which are covered above in § 380.10(b) (Sale of CDs and Tapes)."
And in comments, Dr. Orly whines she can't find that "one honest judge", by which she means someone as nasty, delusional, and unethical has she is.
"3. dr_taitz@(redacted)
January 8th, 2013 @ 10:08 am
everything is wrong, but we still need one honest judge, we can’t find one honest judge."
8 January - SNORK!!!!!
"WASHINGTON, April 17, 2037 (AP) -- Disbarred attorney Orly Taitz was wheeled into court to argue her latest lawsuit alleging that Barack Obama was never a native-born US citizen and thus every act of his Presidency is legally invalid, and that every act of every presidency since then is "fruit of the poisonous tree" and is also invalid. Taitz has been ordered, numerous times, to stop filing this sort of lawsuit, since she lacks standing to do so and lacks the ability to represent others who may have standing; but she persists, saying that "I am a crusader for civil rights, and I will not stop until justice prevails."
President Chelsea Clinton had no comment on the matter."
8 January - "Addicting Info" comments on Larry Klayman's call to revolt.
"For those of you conservatives who aren’t in the habit of learning: Hawaii became the 50th state in the Union in 1959, during the Eisenhower administration. Two years later in 1961, Barack Obama was born in the state to an American mother and a Kenyan father. Being born on American soil to an American parent makes Barack Obama a naturalized citizen. Hawaiian newspapers announced the birth. There is no controversy here. The facts are indisputable. The only people still denying the facts are racists who can’t handle an African-American person being in the White House.
Inciting violence against your country just because the judicial system disagrees with your frivolous lawsuit makes you look like a toddler who is whining about not getting a desired present at the toy store, except that, in this comparison, the toddler isn’t suggesting killing people in order to get his toy. Klayman, however, is doing exactly that … and in this atmosphere of mass shootings and increased gun violence, it’s simply irresponsible and dangerous."
8 January - "Politico" did an article on Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and his possible eligibility. (He was born in Canada to a US mother and Cuban-born father). The article stated that, by and large, yes, yes he is eligible should he choose to run.
This gets George Miller at Obama Ballot Challenge into a froth.
"Panicked by the thought that a smart, charismatic Latino Conservative might run for President, the Left is already trying to put the kebosh on it four years early."
Funny, did you read the same article I did? The experts polled pretty said "yes, yes he is eligible".
Oh, but not to George Miller he's not!
"We have previously stated on these pages that Cruz is ineligible for the Presidency because he was born in Canada to a Cuban father. There is no “grey area” as Politico states- it is plain black and white– I-N-E-L-I-G-I-B-L-E. "
Ah, so he doesn't meet your artificial "blood and soil" criteria, does he? That's okay, because it's US Law and the US Constitution that counts, not your de Vattel fetishists.
"Cruz seems to have already started his presidential campaign (sound familiar), when the words of his oath are still echoing in the Senate halls. Not surprisingly, he has been a virulent anti-”birther” and says he’s eligible. Copy a successful model, huh?"
Funny though how you complain about "leftists" attacking a "smart, charismatic Latino Conservative', and then proceed to do just that to Sen. Cruz. Could it be, oh, I dunno, his last name and skin color you're upset about???
8 January - Sibley v Alexander gets the boot.
(Scribd link here)
"
Upon consideration of [9] defendants' motion to dismiss, plaintiff’s various motions, the several memoranda filed by the parties, and the entire record herein, and for the reasons stated in the Memorandum Opinion issued on this date, it is hereby
ORDERED that [9] defendants' motion to dismiss the complaint is GRANTED; it is further
ORDERED that [1, 8, and 22] plaintiff's motions for a preliminary injunction, to amend,and to disqualify are DENIED; and it is further
ORDERED that the case is remanded to the Superior Court of the District of Columbia"
8 January - The Huffington Post reports on the "please save us or else John Roberts" birtherstani.
"The birther movement is now targeting Chief Justice John Roberts for impeachment if he swears in President Barack Obama for a second term later this month.
Craige McMillan, a columnist for the conservative publication WND.com, wrote a piece last week asking Roberts to not swear Obama in, because, according to McMillan, Obama does not meet the Constitution's definition of a natural born citizen. In the piece, McMillan claims that Obama is not a citizen because his father was a citizen of Kenya and the United Kingdom, and that Obama cannot be "a natural born citizen" because his father was not an American citizen. Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, was born and raised in Kansas by parents who were born in Kansas."
9 January - Disgruntled ex-PUMA Helen Tansy whines that Linda Jordan is being held accountable for her Washington State Birther Ballot jihad.
"By now you have learned that not once in four years has a court of law taken up this matter whether it was raised by an elector, citizen, lawyer, state legislator, presidential candidate, salesman or military-active or retired. None. Zilch. Zero. Zip. All remedies filed in court have been dismissed by the political class’s use of the made up pretend legal term they employ to avoid dealing with real life legal issues—standing.
Why is that? Seriously, why use such legalese if all is on the up and up?"
Because, despite your mob mentality and complete ignorance of the Constitution, we're a nation of laws and the rule of law. You can't disregard either simply because you don't like the President.
"Hundreds of non-Establishment types aka American citizens have filed Memorandums of Complaint, lawsuits or ballot challenges seeking the courts remedy only to be dismissed on lack of “standing” but none have faced MORE THAN $12,000 in sanctions."
Maybe it's time to start doing just that.
"None, that is, until an elector in Washington State, named Linda Jordan, dared to file a ballot challenge in August 2012 clearly enunciating the unequivocal fact that the fraudulent long-form birth certificate, sitting on the White House web server, cannot be used as evidence that Mr. Obama meets “any” of the three Article II qualifications in order to be a presidential candidate. The case was dismissed by a department of the Washington State Supreme Court on December 4th as “Frivolous” and sanctions were awarded. The Attorney General is asking for over $12,000 and the Commissioner of the Court was due to make the final determination on January 3rd. So far no word."
As a Washington state taxpayer myself, I have no problems with the state seeking sanctions against someone who used illegally-obtained information to waste the courts time and resources on a frivolous lawsuit.
"More than $12,000 in sanctions for daring to think that ordinary citizens had the right to access the legal system. "
No, more than $12,000 in sanctions for wasting the courts time and taxpayer money on a lawsuit based in part on illegally-obtained "evidence" and in part on long-since debunked conspiracy theories.
"For four years citizens from all walks of life have simply asked the courts to settle the most basic of citizenship questions – who is a natural born citizen and can forged documents be used to prove citizenship status—only to be met with either dismissal after dismissal or silence."
No, for four years a bunch of conspiracy nuts have tried to claim the President of the United States is a Natural-Born US citizen. They keep being told he is. They keep ignoring the proof and evidence and continue to lie about it.
"Jordan filed an extremely well researched and articulated Complaint accompanied by a Motion to Show Cause and an Affidavit with Exhibits."
Funny, I read her suit. Most of it was cut and pasted from past failed birther lawsuits.
"In it she detailed not only her own observations about the number of odd anomalies found in Mr. Obama’s purported long-form birth certificate, posted on the White House website after being hand delivered by Mr. Obama’s private attorney, but includes Sheriff Arpaio and the Maricopa Counties Cold Case Posse’s findings which have stated clearly, for the record, that the image of the long-form birth certificate is a forgery and a poor one at that! "
As I said, most of it was cut and pasted from past failed birther lawsuits.
"The answer is simple. Jordan’s complaint hit the bulls-eye and the State, acting on behalf of the political Washington Establishment, must kill it in its tracts. If it were to gain any kind of traction in a “truthful world,” Jordan’s complaint would serve as checkmate"
Ah yes, the conspiracy mindset. Where being told "no" repeatedly is somehow proof the answer is "yes", and there every bit of evidence to prove your conspiracy theory is wrong is simply seen as more proof of said conspiracy.
"Sadly, no court in the United States of America is going to ever invite Sheriff Arpaio or his Cold Case Posse team of forensic experts to testify to the long-form birth certificates authenticity in a court of law that is until all of HELL FREEZES OVER. Get it?"
Oh come on. The LAST place Joe Arpaio or the Maricopa CCCP want to be is in an actual courtroom where their "evidence" and their "experts" are subject to cross-examination and their "experts" are shown to be the frauds they are. While it would be amusing to watch, the simple fact that Joe Arpaio hasn't brought any of their Corsi-droppings to an actual attorney general or prosecutors office speaks volumes about the complete lack of credible or factual evidence.
Besides which, Tansy is wrong. The sanctions aren't because Jordan filed the case. It was because she appealed said case after it was dismissed with prejudice on 29 August 2012. Which resulted in the Washington Attorney General's office on 6 September 2012 warning her they would be seeking sanctions for filing a frivolous appeal, and they would do so if she filed any pleading that required the Secretary of State's office to respond.
(Link here. Case Number 878374, Washington Supreme Court, filed on 4 September 2012)
On 25 October 2012, a Declaration for Attorney's Fees was filed (Scribd link here)
"2. As detailed below, Respondent seeks an order setting reasonable attorney fees in this matter at $12,675, payable by Ms. Jordanto the State of Washington."
He then goes on to note 27 hours between 7 September and 16 October. 17.4 hours after 16 October, 1.4 hours related to Jordan's attempt to file requests. Total of 45.8 hours, plus 7 hours by a colleague between 7 September and 16 October. Which works out to $11,450 for one attorney, and $1,225 for the other.
It was only AFTER this, on 2 November 2012, that Linda Jordan filed a "Notice of Intent to Withdraw" Which resulted on 5 December 2012 a decision was filed in which the appeal was dismissed as "Frivolous". And on 10 December 2012 a motion for attorney fees were filed. (It looks like an objection was filed on 20 December 2012)
Linda Jordan was warned that if she appealed her frivolous case, she would be held financially liable. She did and she is. Considering the total number of birther cases is approaching 200, it may be past time for the courts to say "enough" and start holding the birthers financially liable for clogging the courts and wasting taxpayer money like they've been doing.
9 January - Dr. Orly's "Noonan v Obama" case is distributed for conference with SCOTUS.
They don't exactly have much urgency.
"No. 12A606
Title: Edward Noonan, et al., Applicants
v.
Deborah Bowen, California Secretary of State
Docketed: December 13, 2012
Lower Ct: Supreme Court of California
Case Nos.: (S207078)
~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dec 11 2012 Application (12A606) for a stay, submitted to Justice Kennedy.
Dec 13 2012 Application (12A606) denied by Justice Kennedy.
Dec 26 2012 Application (12A606) refiled and submitted to The Chief Justice.
Jan 9 2013 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of February 15, 2013.
Jan 9 2013 Application (12A606) referred to the Court."
I'll note that Lightfoot v Bowen in 2008/2009, on 7 Jan 2009, was distributed for conference for 23 Jan 2009. So SCOTUS is moving even slower for this one.
9 January - Which doesn't stop Dr. Orly from trumpeting it. (malware and redirect warning)
"BREAKING NEWS! CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT JOHN ROBERTS SCHEDULES A CASE BY ATTORNEY TAITZ REGARDING OBAMA’S FORGED IDS TO BE HEARD IN CONFERENCE BEFORE THE FULL SUPREME COURT
Posted on | January 9, 2013"
One would think she would know by now the reply is going to be "denied".
Oh, and in comments:
"11. Saska January 9th, 2013 @ 12:55 pm What 4 Justices will possibly agree to hearing this case in its entirety? Roberts (he’s dirty because he adopted his kids via Latin America, that’s how hussein got to him over healthcare (via Lame Cherry, “Child Trafficking”)), Thomas (“We’re evading it”), Kennedy (appointed by Reagan but has been going Left ever since), Scalia (good guy), and Alito (another good guy)!"
Tad bit racist, eh? And Lame Cherry?? REALLY??
9 January - "Birther Report" whines about the Huffington Post article on the birthers "save us or else John Roberts" approach.
"guest · 5 hours ago
How do you impeach a Supreme Court Justice? Is it the same procedure as for the President?"
Well, one answer:
"★FALCON★ 126p · 4 hours ago
The justice would be brought before the Congress, evidence heard, and a vote taken for removal / impeachment. That conviction would need to be upheld in the Senate.
Samuel Chase (April 17, 1741 – June 19, 1811) was an Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court and earlier was a signatory to the United States Declaration of Independence as a representative of Maryland. Early in life, Chase was a "firebrand" states-righter and revolutionary.[2] His political views changed over his lifetime, and, in the last decades of his career, he became well known as a staunch Federalist and was impeached for allegedly letting his partisan leanings affect his court decisions. Chase was acquitted by the Senate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Chase
Can a US Supreme Court justice be impeached and removed from office?
Answer:
Yes.
Under normal circumstances, a Supreme Court justice is awarded a lifetime commission.
A Supreme Court Justice may be impeached by the House of Representatives and removed from office if convicted in a Senate trial, but only for the same types of offenses that would trigger impeachment proceedings for any other government official under Articles I and II of the Constitution.
Article III, Section 1 states that judges of Article III courts shall hold their offices "during good behavior." "The phrase "good behavior" has been interpreted by the courts to equate to the same level of seriousness 'high crimes and misdemeanors" encompasses. "
But then you get another, more vile and filthy answer:
"ThomasThePaine · 4 hours ago
Or, you send him theater tickets."
Nothing like suggesting assassination rather than rule of law… *vomits in disgust*
9 December - So how do the inmates at Birther Report react to Dr. Orly's news:
(Bold face mine)
" Dealio · 4 hours ago
We obviously all know the outcome. Questions- when is enough enough? When do we march? Couldn't we at least start arresting republican congressmen? He he he"
Nice to see the thought of mob rule makes him all warm and chucklely.
" ★FALCON★ 126p · 3 hours ago
I guess for me and many others - the issue never went away because it was never resolved. Meanwhile, we're all living this national nightmare with a usurper that looks nothing like any previous American President. And there has to be a reason why."
"Doesn't look like any previous American President". Gee, I can't IMAGINE what the difference might be?? (/sarcasm)
They really aren't bothering to hide the racism anymore, are they?
Some support for Dr. Orly:
"Dealio · 16 minutes ago
JohnDoeSr. is absolutely correct. She clearly deserves widespread recognition for her effort. I'm sure it would be extremely helpful for her to know she has our full support. Unfortunately, at some point, we're going to have to rise up and finish this ourselves. I believe it's now a race to see who can finish the other off first."
Followed by sedition:
" ★FALCON★ 126p · 9 minutes ago
We'll finish this ourselves in the spirit of Patrick Henry when the time is right. We're not there just yet. But it won't be much longer."
" ★FALCON★ 126p · 2 hours ago
I assure you it will come. I don't know time and date - but I understand the way this Universe works and it doesn't like fraud, corruption, nor malfeasance. It hates, HATES, hates treason.
Obama cooked a big ole pot of BAD Karma.
The Universe has a way of getting even when you least expect it."
If I was "Falcon", I would't be talking about "bad karma"…..
" farleftlibnutjob · 2 hours agoit's different now, roberts counted on obama losing the election and thereby getting him off the hook for a number of issues including eligibility and his lame ruling on obama care by "legislating" from the bench
now he has a chance to make history by actually standing by the constitution
also obama or whatever his real name is, also made history, as the ONLY EVER occupier of the white house to get a hearing on what are his obviously flawed credentials
that is not something to be proud of"
Dope springs eternal.
9 December - Meanwhile, George Miller has a sad about Dr. Orly's big announcement:
"They’re not hearing the case- just deciding whether to even take it. They have done this before and always turned them down. Roberts is NOT our friend on ths- just Thomas and Scalia. Takes 4 votes to schedule an actual hearing. Kagan and Sotomayer should recuse but won’t. Let us pray."
Poor little Georgie…..
> Being born on American soil to an American parent makes Barack Obama a naturalized citizen.
They got that part wrong, they meant "a natural-born citizen". And even that is misleading since "American parent" isn't necessary. (Lest someone interprets this like birthers interpret Minor vs. Happersett.)
Posted by: The Magic M | January 10, 2013 at 01:58 AM
"uphold the true organic Constitution"
Can I get one of those at Whole Foods?
Posted by: Origuy | January 10, 2013 at 10:43 AM
Patrick, do you know if anyone ever has filed a formal complaint against Orly in California, to get the wheels of professional regulation turning toward disbarment? The question came up during a discussion and frankly, I don't know, thought you might.
Posted by: Greg Brown | January 10, 2013 at 11:17 AM
Greg Brown - I know at least three or four complaints against Dr. Orly that were alleged to have been sent the California Bar, one from a former client (Connie Rhodes), one from a Federal Judge (Judge Lamb), and about two others. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there were more.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | January 10, 2013 at 12:29 PM
Origuy - You can, but it's going to be REALLY expensive there. :)
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | January 10, 2013 at 12:29 PM
Just as a "you can't make this stuff up" note, when I clicked the link to the Addicting Info article, on the page was an ad for one of those five cents a minute international calling plans. The country it was saying you could call so cheap?
Kenya.
Posted by: ASK Esq | January 10, 2013 at 01:11 PM
Thanks Patrick.
Posted by: Greg Brown | January 11, 2013 at 11:24 AM